E9 tuning for lap steel.

[hatterjack]

Hello all
A general query really as I dont know many other players...and I don't personally know anybody else who defaults to E9 tuning on lap.
For nearly 20 years (I'm feeling old now!) this what I have used for years on my home made 8 string.
C# E F# G# B E G# D#

So just a pedal steel E9 set with the 10th and 1st strings omitted. I tune the the 8th string down to a C# so I can grab the relative 6th minor without having to think ,and there are two easy grips on the top 4 strings that give me the relative 5th major and the relative 2nd minor. Also a useful 7th major power chord using strings 8 and 6. So I have 5 main chords for any given bar position plus various fragments.

This tuning plus slants and bending behind the bar gets me most of what I want, but I wonder what others use? Open to suggested refinements or simple retunes for live work that would add interesting colour.
Jack

[mick hearn]

I use a twin neck National and most of my work is done on the C6 back neck. However my front neck is E13 with a high G# so not far off. Tuning low to high is G# D F# G# B C# E G#.

[hatterjack]

Thanks Mick. Definitely worth a shot. I'll have a go when I get back from work and see if I can fake a bit of western swing by a simple detune of my 7th string and maybe one other. Of course it won't be anything like proper but it would certainly be an easy onstage change between or even during numbers. I do have a 6 string lap that I tune to C6 which is always great fun but I almost never take both to gigs as the main reason for bringing a lap is to save me lugging the pedal steel. PSG with fiddle, amp and assorted junk means I'm knackred before I even sit down to play! Plus most of the people I play with these days seem to want that lonesome 9th thing anyway. Will let you know how I get on.
J

[mick hearn]

Sounds to me like you already have it sussed mate. If you are happy with your tuning stick to it and experiment as always. Here are a couple of things I did on the E13 neck - Blue Jade by Buddy Emmons and also Blue Steel Blues by Tom Morrell. One pedal steel type and the other Western Swing. Both done on the National although one pic shows me behind a ShoBud. It was the only pic I had at that time.

As far as Blue Steel Blues was concerned I was around the 4th and 5th chord most of the time with the occasional journey to the 1 chord.





Have fun

[hatterjack]

Fantastic Mick..gorgeous playing/tone.

[mick hearn]

Thanks mate.

I was looking at your start post and realised you know more theory than I ever will. I play some wonderful chords but have not a clue what they are. One thing that did hit my eye was the fact that you retained the second string from E9. Just tried that note on C6 and sound good with other strings. Never tried the fifth before , or may have done without knowing. The reason I thought about this is that Buddy Emmons on his C6 has a D as his top string rather than G. Reece Anderson uses a C6 with high G but also has D as first string and B as second. To me that gives you the same intervals as in E9, in other words Reece has two chromatic strings on top. So the question is, Was there any other reason why you went for the Eb as top string and not F#? As I say I don't understand the theory side so your answer could be quite simple.

[hatterjack]

Hi Mick.
The reason I kept that 2nd string from the E9 set as a D# and made it effectively my first string is so that by picking 1st 4th and 5th strings it will give me the V chord (if in the key of C at the 8th fret I'll get a G chord).

Even better gripping the 1st 3rd and $th strings in that bar position give me the IIIm ( an Eminor chord). So with no bar slants I have C, Am, F, G, Em and D chords or chord fragments in the case of the D, but I only have to slide up 2 frets to get the full chord anyway, so no biggie.

Also by slanting the bar across the 1st and 3rd string I get a unison effect which I use a lot in things like the cover of Fisherman's Blues that we do live...means I can play that dual fiddle part thats the main hook of the song.

Hope this helps explain. It sound complicated but its actually really practical.

Jack
PS I know v little theory really, If I was starting again I'd have paid more attention to Jazz instead of my ears!

[ubique]

Hi Jack and Mick
I have been following this thread as I have a cheapie 6 string lap fitted with a Deusenberger multibender presently tuned to open D with the levers raising strings 2 and 3. Just ordered a set of E9 strings. Which of the 10 strings would you use and
how would you tune them.
Cheers.
Neil

[hatterjack]

Hi Neil
I'll have to have a think about this.
So many options and it depends what you want to do.
The common ones for 6 string lap in E are:
E6 tuning E-G#-B-C#-E-G# so I guess grap the strings from the set that fit those notes or close to them.
or E7 tuning B-D-E-G#-B-E.

If it was me and given what your lap can do with the benders I would probably go with strings 4,5,6,7,8,9 from the E9 pedal steel set.
that will give you D-E-F#-G#-B-E...
BUT
Tune them as standard except for the 9th string from the set (which will be your 6th string) . Tune that one to a C# instead of a D ..that way youl have an easy route to get the 6 minor in any key. (you'll know this that Am goes with C ...A being 6 notes above C...I often end up counting my fingers in wierd keys like Eb!).
I think with the your benders that should emulate what the A and B pedals do on a pedal steel (I think). That would mean you'd get that minor chord with one of the palm levers and a sus4 chord with the other and the IV chord with both. If that works then you can tune the 6th string to whatever you think is useful instead of the C#, but I'd still go with a C# myself because that plus what will be your 4th string anF# makes a mighty powerful rock-god noise when you need it!

In the past I've always found a C6th tuning most useful for 6 strings,but its a bit single mindedly honky tonk for the stuff I normally end up playing in bands. Also my main reason for doing what I do is to fake E9 pedal steel when I can't take the real thing to a show.It sort of works on an eight string lap but I really not sure if it does on a six.

I'm interested to know how you get on and I'm sure there are people who are far more knowledgeable and sensible than me who can chip in with ideas. I hope they do because I do't know much about anything other than my own odd way of doing things.
Regards
Jack

[ubique]

Many thanks for that detailed reply Jack. I had a PSG for a couple of years but failed to master it, but loved the sound so the your recommendations re strings and tuning sound just what I need. I will let you know how I get on.
Best regards.
Neil