U12 or S10

[rogerp1]

Hi all
I am still saving up to buy a PSG and I quite like the idea of a U12 but am wondering if it would be suitable to someone new to pedal steel? Would I be better going for a S10 E9 basic setup to start out?
I play all styles of music

[Ken Byng]

Roger
Most tuition and tablature for beginners is for E9 - S10.

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

Roger, Dave Seddon is selling a great little steel it is built to "Pro" standard and you would be hard pressed to find anything better for the price he is asking......

[rogerp1]

Hi Ken
Realise that but thought it might be easy to use the E9 C6 tab and tutorials on the U12 or would this be difficult for a beginner?

[rogerp1]

Hi John
Yeah I noticed Dave's S10 and it does look nice but due to car and boiler repairs my steel buying plans have gone out of the winow for a couple of months til I save up again....dont believe in all this credit crap!
Just researching at the moment so when Ive got the cash I'll know what to buy.....hopefully

[Jif]

Hi Roger,

I started on a E9 and went for a Uni a year or so ago.

Yes, you can do everything you can do on E9 on Uni, the only real difference is that the Uni omits the D on string 9 which means you have to use a lever or pedal to get the D. Here are the 2 different open string arrangements,

E9 Uni

(1) F# - F#
(2) Eb - Eb
(3) G# - G#
(4) E - E
(5) B - B
(6) G# - G#
(7) F# - F#
(8) E - E
(9) D - B
(10) B - G#
(11) - E
(12) - B

So if you are playing an E9 Tab which requires you to play the D string, you would need to use a lever or pedal, on my Carter Uni it is either LKL or P6. In the version I did of Somewhere Over The Rainbow I used LKL to get a required D.

On C6 tab I have had to transpose up a semi-tone as the version of this tuning on a Uni is actually B6, also the pedals are not arranged quite the same as a E9/C6 dual neck, although they enact the same changes. There is generally one C6 pedal less on the Uni but the changes on this I believe can be achieved through using another combination of pedal and lever, although I've never got to that stage yet, perhaps someone more experienced can be a bit more specific on this.

From my perspective I really like the Uni and am glad I went this route. When I first thought about playing pedal steel the concept of the Uni seemed too complicated at the time and I started off buying a GFI Student S10, which was fine for learning the basics. After a while I realised if I was going to progress I needed to buy something a bit more professional, at this point I felt that the Uni gave the most options for future expansion...

So if I was starting out now which way would I go, well, I would probably go Uni but that's with the advantage of hindsight and at the time I wasn't sure whether I would be able to get to grips with pedal steel so went for a cheaper option to find out.

Pro's and cons.

Buying an reasonable E9 would give you a chance to see how you get on initially, it's a steep learning curve!, and a chance to build up a knowledge of the basics without the complications of a Uni distracting you.

Buying a Uni would mean that you would be starting off on a Uni setup and would grow into it as time progressed.

Uni is going to be more expensive for a first guitar and they don't come up for sale as often as an S10.

If you are sure that Uni is the way you eventually want to go anyway, then buying one now would save in the long run as you would need to buy and sell an S10 before going Uni.

I hope that this helps and that I haven't just confused matters!

Geoff

[rogerp1]

Cheers Geoff,
Thanks for the reply
I'll probably go with an S10 as there are more of them about cheaper etc but it was just if one came up when I'm in a position to buy should I instantly rule it out or consider it.
My thinking was because I am fairly proficient on C6th non pedal and know where all the notes are on the neck it might make things easier. It also might just be more confusing and I might be better just getting a S10 and learning E9th.
I don't really want 2 necks either

Roger

[JeffM]

Hi Roger,

I'm in almost exactly the same position as you except that I took the plunge last week and bought a gorgeous Sho-Bud S10. I never really considered a 12, but had been trying to find a suitable 8, thinking it would be an easier transition from lap steel but decided I might as well go for a 10. I had previously picked up a little Fessenden six stringer with 2 pedals which is a lot of fun and had had a Fender 1000 double neck PSG for a number of years (that spent most of the time under the bed).

My main tuning is A6 and with the A&B pedals down and the D lowered a semitone with a knee lever, I have my usual 6 string A6 tuning (same as C6 with a high G but 3 semitones lower) on strings 4-9. If you can mentally adjust by 1 fret (just imagine the song is in F instead of E for example), you'll find a 5 string version of C6 with high E on the first fret if you lower the Es with a lever.

The other thing I am finding is that when I sit at the PSG, because it feels a bit different with the extra strings, I get into a different mindset and start thinking about pedals but when I'm back on lap steel, pedals don't enter my mind. It's like when I pick up a mandolin, I no longer think about guitar chord shapes.

My other worry, before taking the plunge, which you may or may not have thought of, is the difference in spacing between the strings. I thought I'd find it too cramped after being used to 8 stringers but, again, I think it actually helps to get you in a different mindset and approach the instrument differently.

[Danny Mitchell]

Very interesting thread. I was a bit in the dark about the 'universal', but this has shone a light. Thanks chaps.