*****JUST WHAT IS THIS FORUM FOR?*****

[Ken Byng]

I don't wish the topic title to come across as confrontational or challenging in any way. The major factor that has struck me over the past year is just how small our community is, and how few people actually participate actively in the forum. I would like to get people's view on the expectations of the forum and what they want to achieve from membership.

Some use the forum mainly to sell their services, products or goods. Nothing wrong with that. Others use it to supply a cross flow of information - mainly the older members. Some promote shows and meetings - always a brilliant thing to do as the organisation of these events can be exhaustive and unrewarding.

I have met some youngsters in the past few months who are relative novices on steel guitar, yet they thirst for information on the instrument in exactly the same way that players of my generation did some 40 or 50 years ago. The internet, which I have long felt is a giant encyclopedia or library, is a huge help to aspiring musicians of any instrument. When I was in my early 20's, a trip to Eric Snowball's shop in Kent was virtually the only way that I could glean information/gossip/awareness of steel guitar as Eric's business was the hub of the steel guitar universe in the UK for many years. My annual trips to the USA now serve the same purpose, except that I get to hear important news and info straight from the horses mouths so to speak.

Roy, Bob and the other main committee members who hold this forum together do it because they genuinely care about the instrument. Talking to Roy at the Irish Steel Show a few weeks ago just re-enforced my view that he loves the instrument more now than he ever has done.

I have to mention the Scots at this point. They have some superb players up in bonny Scotland, and I am sure that the community spirit that they have at their meets is a driving force behind the level of expertise that they have achieved. Likewise, there are some first class pickers in Ireland (north and south), and they gain from a bigger interest in country music than there is in the remainder of the UK.

Lets hear more from the novice members, as those of us who are long in the tooth tend to hog much of the forum. It doesn't matter if people feel that they have nothing to offer. I have felt for a very long time that you can learn something from everybody - from the rank beginner to the seasoned pro.

[WineRider]

Ken that is one hell of a question,
I have had both input to my ignorance on many of the subjects of in my case non pedal guitar and a lot of out put from I have to say a very small yet knowledgeable corps of stalwarts on this site. All information is useful for us mere novices, yet sometimes the good intentioned answers tend to hit home harder than I think the giver realises. You have mentioned the Internet, but you have to be able to use it with in some instances huge pinches of salt. OK I may have been lucky with the questions I have asked...but I do have 69 years of being inquisative, and am prepared to take the rough with the smooth, even when the well intentioned rebukes or harsh'ish criticism is issued.

1. There are more 'Professional Teaches' who quite frankly know less than me and their teaching practices often spell disaster to young or innocent minds.
2. It would be helpful if we beginners could be given some tit bits on how to produce some usable tabs from music scores we already have.
3. Teachers should be able to teach, not show how good they are. There are also those who know what they are talking about and doing, but they just can't teach to save their lives.

I have never been one to expect something for nothing...but for youngster just starting out, but not all of us are blessed with masses of music skills...i;e: transcribing, writing, and or working out harmonising notes.
This is simple for those that have that knowledge, but fore the rest of us mere mortals it is like tracing rocking horse pooh.

As to selling products or services that's fine for me...in the right place...Items for Sale. The occasional refernce in replies to questions is fine but not the outright sales pitch.

There are deffinitely fewer pickers answering questions or posing statements or ideas of late and many seem to have fallen by the wayside completely, one could ask the question have they died, retired or just lost interest? I hope not because I have found the answers and advice to me invaluable.

WineRider (AKA Maurice)
2 six string handmade lap steels, 1 eight string lap steel 2 left hands no idea about tone. But the noise I make is mine, no one elses...I can live with that...just about.

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

I don't wish the topic title to come across as confrontational or challenging in any way

Ken, is this a case of “if the cap fits wear it”?? I guess I am one of the old farts hoggin the forum
I would love to see more young blood on here but you cannot make them post and it is post’s that keep this thing alive, I welcome any post on here as long as it’s not confrontational or challenging

Maurice, re. “There are more 'Professional Teaches' who quite frankly know less than me and their teaching practices often spell disaster to young or innocent minds.”

Could this also be me? If so, in my defense My class today could testify that before starting the day (at 10`oclock this morning they received the Disclaimer/Warning telling them that they could be learning Bad Habits AND Bum notes accompanied by miss-guidance but, after travelling four and a half hours to get to me, strangely they all three elected to stay. Of course that could be down to the fact that Eithne makes the best sausage rolls and mince pies North of Watford not to mention the beef ,Ham and tomato rolls loads of tea and coffee and coke and it did not cost them a penny as I try to give back to the steel community some of what I take out. It was not a real long day, we wound up at about 7pm this evening.

“As to selling products or services that's fine for me...in the right place...Items for Sale. The occasional refernce in replies to questions is fine but not the outright sales pitch.”

I don’t quite agree with this either as the sale of any steel on here should result in a donation to the forum and donation is also life blood to the forum, like Ken when I was young Eric Snowball’s shop was the only place you had a chance to acquire a steel guitar, If you cannot get to the USA where are you going to go now? Ted’s a fair way away in Ireland, ebay will get you screwed and before you part with such a wedge would you not rather buy from someone that can demonstrate it and show that it actually works?

“ I have felt for a very long time that you can learn something from everybody - from the rank beginner to the seasoned pro. “

I am with you on that one Ken….

[Ken Byng]

JD
My comments were not directed at you in any way. You have single handedly kept the site going with your posts, and fair play to you, you help the newbies and youngsters. I am merely trying to ascertain why folks join the forum, as there are differing reasons why people become members. Some join and then fail to take advantage of the site.

[Tony Smart]

This misconception about not knowing anything about music needs sorting out.
If you're saying this, you are doing yourself down.

All you need to know is the intervals of a scale, i.e. that your schooldays Do, Re, Mi etc. are given numbers 1 - 8. It doesn't come much easier than that.
Chords are based on these numbers with a few simple rules e.g. about a 7th chord which I explained in an earlier post about Modes. Unless you are going to play from the dots, this is really all you need, apart from ear training. There are plenty of musicians who know everything about music but can't play unless they have the dots in front of them, so take heart.

To say you don't know anything about music or theory is just kidding yourself. Just think, if someone says play a C chord, or this song is in G and you understand that, then you do know something about music and theory.

I haven't put this very well, but if you are one of these people who are in denial, have some confidence. It isn't difficult and really the main obstacle to learning is training your ear. No amount of musical training can give you the feel or expressive emotion, which our instrument can convey.

If you've been playing for some time it's very hard to give people tips as you've forgotten most of the problems you've had when learning.
So the answer is for beginners to ask the questions here. There will always be someone to help.

Slightly off topic I know.

[Basil Henriques]

I'm always here to help, pass it on and answer any questions that I feel competent to answer. GRATIS at that..
BUT ..........

[WineRider]

John I wasn't pointing any fingers to the members of this Forum, quite the opposite in fact. I was referring to one person in particular on the internet who quite frankly frightens the daylights out of me...I think his first is name Rory, Basil has had more goes at this guy than Sylvester Stylone. This Forum has helped me in more ways than I can say...in both airing my views, ideas and problems. Then reading all the for and against my thoughts...That is healthy.

I beg to differ on the sales side of things...but that's fine by me "It Doesn't Make Either Of Us Bad People" so I will still continue without any angst.

I may be belittling some of my knowledge, but living in rural France and finding like minded people is quite difficult. Rubbing shoulders with other pickers and asking questions is not something we can do very easily. But occassionally it is possible to speak with someone who can answer or even correct techniques. This has been useful in the past when as when I first joined the Forum, Basil was kind enough to send me links to his music, which was an eye opener, since then Tony Russell Davis pics. of finger picks and how he uses them along with other advice. Slimbo sent me a link to explain seating position etc. Allan J Kelly with info on the picks he uses and how he fits them. All useful and greatfully received and used. It still hasn't improved my ability with finger picks and I am still experimenting to get the right attack and hand position...like my mins it tends to wander.

So if anyone wants advice about racing motorcycles round the Isle of Man or Cycle Road Racing in France or other such info I'm your man.

But what ever happens don't let this Forum Die!!!!

Maurice

[David Hartley]

I will die before the forum will!

I think it's good we have a UK forum.

Good thread..

PS. I know lots of steel players, and other friends of UK forum members who just like to see what we all talk about and visit the forum regularly. That's why there's lots of views to threads sometimes with little or no replies. That's their choice.

[timdjango]

I think the forum is a fine place. To me, it offers a generally safe place to buy, sell and discuss important, or trivial topics.

Moreover the atmosphere is always warm and inviting. The forum is a good example of a dedicated hobbyists site, with some professional elements. Like the US forum, there is a strong retro element and an emphasis on tinkering, which is all right and good, considering the pedal steel's heritage and mechanics.

Some players use the forum, others don't, but as they say it's better to be in the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. Notable absentees include Dave Rothon and BJ Cole.

The steel is a niche choice, with a high price point and is as much favoured a project by engineers as seasoned musicians. As I put in a previous post, the demographic will not shift until some barriers to entry have been alleviated. I also think that the pedal steel will also remain a 'country' instrument, with some outliers. This has as much to do with the singer-songwriters who engage steel players, as the steelers themselves.

If there was one thing I would add the forum, it would be a 'sticky topic' along the lines of "Starting out on Steel", with some sensible principles for purchase and early learning in the UK.

All the best
Tim.

[WineRider]

That is good idea timdjango,
The Sec. Mod. School in Blandford is an example of a music teacher with balls. He is at the moment teaching blues to his students a&nd uses a small lap steel as his instrument of instruction...is that innovative or what.

One of his pupils is the son of a friend and they visited us over the Christmas period. The youngster is an avid drummer at present, but plays the piano as well (his mother teaches music at a private school not far from Blandford). He also dabbles with a Uke. and showed huge interest in learning guitar, so I have promised him the solid body hand made Srtat. copy of mine for him to use. I only wish I could have got him more interested in the lap steels....maybe in time!!!!

Maurice