Advice on accessories

[KSJ81]

Hi All,

I have just ordered my first lap steel (6 string) to have bash at and would appreciate any advice on what sorts of picks, tone bar, strings (i reckon I'll go for C6 tuning) etc I should pick up in preparation for the guitars arrival to get me going.

Also any recommendations for books/ dvd's etc to help me with technique would be good.

Thanks in advance

Kev

[henrybainbridge]

Hi Kev,
I've only been on the steel for just over a year but I've been playing and teaching music for the past 15 years so hopefully I can offer some useful advice.

Regarding books, while it's great to have something in front of you I would have to say that you'll be amazed by the wealth of stuff available on youtube. For me, the benefit of videos is that they help you to keep the pace up while learning and allow you to really compare your sound and technique with the teachers (something that has only really becoming possible with the clarity of HD video). While it may take you an hour to get through a 10 minute video you will be able to see the progress bar at the bottom and have a real sense of completion when you get to the end of the video.

Re: Picks, Tone Bars etc - In my experience, don't buy the cheaper 'no-name' picks or Dr. Sherpa brand. They have a cheap feel and are flimsy and uncomfortable. For what it's worth I like using the 'National' reproductions that you can buy on ebay (especially there thumb picks) and there are plenty of people who warn against Dunlop brand as they have ridges on them that tend to catch on strings. Hell, they're all relatively cheap anyway so you can always buy a couple of brands and see which ones feel right to you.
Do bother to bend them properly (using pliers) to the curve of your finger though, and don't wrap them too tight!

Tone bars, lot's of people I respect swear by the more expensive brands (BJS, John Pearse..). It probably does make a difference so spend what you can afford on those. I use an ernie ball bar (which is fine!) at the moment but will make the upgrade at some point.

Strings - Not sure if this is vaguely controversial, but, in my experience the brand of the strings makes very little difference - some strings will be brighter for a little longer but this is all relative. I tend to buy the cheapest strings that I can (S.I.T's) and lots of them so that I can change them every couple of weeks (I would do it more often if I wasn't so damn lazy). A big part of that steel guitar sound that you know and love is the sound of clean, fresh strings.

Anyway, drop me a line if you need any more info. I'm sure there are lots of guys on here who can offer you some great info, but hopefully this can get you pointed in the right direction.

H

[Tony Russell Davis]

Hi Kev - here's a tip for strings (I've said it before on here).
As you aren't sure about tuning but think C6th is the way to go (and I agree) you will need to figure out whether you will prefer (lo to hi) CEGACE (which seems the more common among 6 string players) or EGACEG (you can substitute low C for the bottom E). I like the "5th" on top, but my guitars have 7 or more strings so I can have that without losing one of the bottom notes C or E.
One way to try them out is to search somewhere like eBay for an 8 string C6th (e.g. GHS strings) and use the ones out of that set that fit your preference. Also 12 string guitar sets can be useful way to get a bunch of strings for messing with until you find the right gauges for you.
Henry's right about getting decent picks but I haven't tried Dunlop picks so can't comment on them; but you should try the heavier gauges (maybe 20 - 25).
However Dunlop make decent bars (e.g. their 919/920) that are cheaper than many and quite acceptable if you don't want to spend loads to start out. Although I have others, I use 920s as general purpose bars for lap, dobro and pedal steel.
Last tip - we don't know whereabouts you are, but you should try to make contact with a player roughly in your area, as seeing is the best way to learn how to shape, wear and use picks, control the bar, hold the guitar etc.etc.
Regards, Tony.

[KSJ81]

Henry / Tony thanks for your advice, I will absorb all the info provided. Tony I think you make a great point in trying to find local players - I am based in Aberdeen if anyone happens to be from around those parts and wouldn't mind helping a beginner out!

Should probably have mentioned in the OP about online stores to pick up these things too. Are there any in particular that folks like to use, I've had a scan of the usual suspects like amazon and eBay, I'm all for supporting more independent stores so any recommendations would be great too.

I cant wait for my steelie to arrive and get going with it.

cheers

Kev

[WineRider]

Hi Kev,
Welcome to the world of steel. I am new to steel but played Uke. guitar and dabbled with my fathers banjo. All the advice you have had is all valid, but like all advice you have to work out for yourself what works for you...sometimes it is the hard way, just trial and error.
If you Google search for: Joe Wright and Sierra guitars beginners lessons (12) of them. He is some showman but the video's are brilliant.
Personally I wouldn't worry at this stage if things aren't quite right, get to know the LS make some noise and just enjoy the experience, if you can find a teacher at the right price good, if not this forum is the best in the world and there are some great players out there who will spend lots of time giving you stacks of free info and help with tabs...they helped me and still do. It's a small world we live in and questions will always be answered, with all the years of experience of the players.

Hal Leonard Lap Steel Guitar is useful but very limited. It uses open tunings but it is a start, no C6th. Stacy Phillips, Hawaiian Steel Guitar is also very useful mostly in Hawaiian tuning but there are several tunes in G6th which possible to transpose into C6th...if I can transpose it you will be able to. I had to ask questions to do it, but it is possible.

Oh by the way, I can't get on with finger picks I just use a Delrin thumb pick, but I will accept that there is a slight loss in brightness of tone, but then Derek Trucks has played slide guitar for years with some of the best bands in the world without any picks at all...it's down to your preferences on what you hear when you play.

I will now wait for the criticism to flow!!!! Ha Ha

Have fun enjoy what you play and play what you enjoy.

WineRider (AKA Maurice)
Home made LS Modified Peavey Rage, no brain and all finger and thumbs. http://www.winerider.com

[thefatcyclist]

Hi there being new and wondering about strings, I was pointed towards this web site.

http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/gauges.php

This has a wealth of info regarding strings and I found the guage chart invaluable particularly because my string length is really short.

I think the type of strings is important, a set for c6 is totally different from open G for instance. When I started I was on ordinary guitar strings, and the scraping from the windings drove me nuts, I was also on far too light guage and the tone was awful when added to the noise created by my novice level

Flat wound is much better in my beginners mind.

I'm using a shubb sp2 bar, but wish I had gotten a solid bullet bar about 3/4 incch diameter, and may change.

I'm using a plastic Dunlop thumb and 2 metal finger picks, but might grow my nails. The finger picks hurt my quicks.

I'm in C6 at the moment, since all the instruction is there, but once I climb the learning curve a bit I will change to a more rock/blues tuning.

I did consider learning from slide resonator vidoes in dobro tuning.

Hope this helps.
J

[Tony Russell Davis]

Hi Maurice - good advice there, apart from the bit about picks (you knew that was coming). I couldn't resist jumping in; somebody might get the idea that it's ok not to wear picks from the beginning!
Picks are a vital part of the tone production and you should persevere with them. Most of the people I've heard who don't wear picks are guitarists who mess a little with steel, not "steel guitarists".
What'll be next - suggesting a "stevens" bar on electric lap steel
And with that sweeping generalisation - Tony

Edits after seeing J's post.
Never used flatwound strings; maybe it's the bar diameter causes scraping, or maybe you're sliding/shaking for vibrato instead of rolling? Ah, a Shubb "stevens" bar - they don't roll good. Get that bullet, it might solve the problems; certainly better for slants.
String gauges need to be matched to the scale length.
Your fingerpicks are bent wrong, try setting them again and please keep using them! Fingernails are at totally the wrong angle (if your picking hand is correct).
Loads of blues in a C6th tuning but E7 is worth a look.
All best, T.

[thefatcyclist]

Pick picks picks Mandatory I know but loads of players do it without, especially if come to Lapsteel from a classical or finger style background. However I repharase,
It is essential that beginners such as us try and persevere with finger picks, especially when it comes to grips and chords. Wear them all the time, when watching television, doing the dishes, putting out the rubbish. Nails cannot give the classic tone.

Don't try this at home.......Here is how not to do it brilliantly, no picks funny bar, no volume pedal



and here

[Tawpick]

Hi Kev

You may want to check out this book http://www.mikeneer.com/lapsteelin/2013 ... les-modes/ . If you already play another instrument and or have some musical knowledge then this book will show you where all the notes are on the lap steel neck and inspire you to broaden your horizons. It has certainly helped me out in C6 tuning.

If on the other hand you are a total newcomer to playing an instrument you may want to leave this book alone until you have come to grips with the basics which will be easier to learn in audio/visual formats. LikeWinerider says the Hal Leonard book is very basic so of limited use really and no C6 there.

There's some really useful info on slants here http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/modes7steel.html well worth a read through.
Have fun

Dave

[WineRider]

OK Tony,
Gloves are off...yes I did think someone would have a go about no picks...I've been provocative for the past 68 years so another day won't add much but, 'it sure does raise the question' Is sound perceived as true reflection of what we hear or is it actual? 2nd question. Is it right to copy sound or should we all be trying for our own unique sound and interpretation?
The reason I ask is: My hearing isn't what it was due to the years of road racing noisy motorcycles and also maybe because I'm old! So what I hear is possibly totally different to you, but we both hear what is played.

Now I read OK so what is a seasoned member? Does this mean that all seasoned members are:

1. dusted in salt and pepper to add that distinctive flavour?

2. pickled in some sort of preparation.

3. or just well oiled.

I do take your point though especially when you also mention tone bars from one of my other posts I passed comments about these little beauties.
Strings I haven't started on...yet but I will think, after some research, that is...to pose some mind boggling inarticulate thoughts on the subject.

Any advice will be gratefully received.

Winerider (AKA Maurice)
Not too sure what I am now!!!!