Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Building, restoration, repairs, set-up, tweaking....in here!

Re: Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Postby Danny Mitchell » Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:07 pm

I reckon this exercise has moved you up 3 levels of enlightenment on your journey to Steelie Nirvana :guitar:
GFI Ultra keyless S10 4+5 Emmon's setup + Sigler, Li'l Izzy, Hilton volume pedal, Roland Cube 80gx, Joyo American Sound Pre-amp, Behringer VD400 Delay Pedal, Peterson Strobo Plus HD and a brace of bars, Ben's, Ezzee-Slide, Pearse, BJS, SIT nickel strings.
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Re: Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Postby Jif » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:54 pm

:lol: :lol: :guitar:

Yeah maybe, pity you've got to go through hell first :twisted:

Sometimes I curse the day when I first got attracted to this addictive instrument, what made up my mind to get one initially was a gig in the Rothes Halls featuring Hogans Heroes. Watching and listening to what Gerry was doing really inspired me, great player, and I decided there and then it was for me.

I mentioned this to Gerry a few years ago, told him that he had inspired me to take it up, his reply was - "Oh, sorry about that". :lol:

TBH though I love playing it, lose myself for hours in it, it really is a wonderful instrument.
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Re: Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Postby Jif » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:25 pm

Having a wee break from this today, so thought I'd post up some of what I have done so far.

Day 1

First thing I did was a changer flush and re-oil. TBH it looked pretty clean but thought it would be nice to start with a fresh changer.

Below are the essential tools I used for this job. The lighter fuel which is essentially Naphtha is a great cleaner for this purpose, the nappy catches the fluid and residue. I like to jiggle the pedals and levers when I'm doing this to get into the parts other fluids can't reach ;) The 3rd photo shows the resulting residue, not much there, when I did my Carter, an older guitar, there was loads of gunk, so worth doing every now and then.

Nappies.jpg


Nappy Underside.jpg


Nappy Dirt.jpg
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Re: Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Postby Jif » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:33 pm

The photos below show the topside and underside of the changer after cleaning, looks nice and shiny! I then oiled the changer from the top using Regin Fan Assembly Oiler, this is what MSA recommend for lubing their steels. I used to use sewing machine oil but this seems to be finer and works really well. The bottle also has a long extendable spout which is useful for reaching those tricky bits.

Clean Changer Top.jpg


Clean Changer Bottom.jpg


Fan Oil 2.jpg
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Re: Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Postby Jif » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:48 pm

Day 2

On Day 2 I prepared some tools, got the steel onto the stand and got started. First off I took an old tuning peg tool and sawed off the end so it could be used in a portable drill to quickly remove the pegs. I put the drill on a very low torque setting and removed the pegs from the rods that were coming out. I wouldn't recommend using the drill to put the pegs back on, I never tried it but reckon it could have led to stripped threads or going too far onto a rod, I wanted to keep them slack when back on the rods so I wasn't pushing down a pedal and snapping a string.

I bought a Dymo labeller from Lidl for a tenner and used it to label the rods as I removed them, labeling them for the shaft they had come off, i.e. P0, LKL etc, this made it easier to identify where they would be used later. I have found this handy throughout the conversion, also when I have stripped back all the rods on a string to fit a new rod. Well worth the investment.

Peg Tool Cut.jpg


Drill.jpg


Labeller.jpg
Last edited by Jif on Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Postby Jif » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:53 pm

On the stand, ready to start.

On Stand Ready To Start.jpg


Underside before rod removal.

Underside Before Rod Removal.jpg


Underside after rod removal.

Underside Rods Removed.jpg
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Re: Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Postby Jif » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:18 pm

Removed Rods.

Removed Rods.jpg


Often when folks have looked at the underside of my Legend they ask - "What are the batteries for?" The answer is they are used for the fretboard underlighting, this is a great feature of the modern MSA's and is built into the steel when constructed, it has to be specified when ordering and adds to the price but has been well worth it.

I also utilised the batteries to power my version of the Little Izzy type circuit. Essentially it is a very high impedance input unity gain amplifier, from memory around 2.2M ohms, which doesn't load the pickup as much as going straight into the volume pedal. The result of this as folks with a Little Izzy or similar will know, is less treble loss and a brighter sound. The circuit has a unity voltage gain but boosts the current travelling down the cable which leads to less treble loss through the cable, so it's a win/win. Very simple circuit, essentially an FET configured as a source follower for all you geeks out there :ugeek:

Here's a close up of the pre amp. I fitted an on/off switch to it, I originally had it wired so that the jack plug into the guitar connected in the power but kept forgetting to remove the jack and hence flattening the batteries. I mostly remember to switch it off as it is a definite act. The switch also bypasses the circuit in the off position, so the pickup is then connected straight to the jack, so if I'm out playing somewhere and the batteries die I can still play.

Preamp.jpg


That's all for now folks, the juicy bits will come later once I'm more or less finished. (TBH I'll probably never be completely finished, always something to tweak) :lol:
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Re: Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Postby Danny Mitchell » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:33 pm

Geoff :shock: I doff my bunnet to your comprehensive boffinry. Putting the impedance buffer, piggy backing off your disco lights power supply. :shock:
Bloody genius
GFI Ultra keyless S10 4+5 Emmon's setup + Sigler, Li'l Izzy, Hilton volume pedal, Roland Cube 80gx, Joyo American Sound Pre-amp, Behringer VD400 Delay Pedal, Peterson Strobo Plus HD and a brace of bars, Ben's, Ezzee-Slide, Pearse, BJS, SIT nickel strings.
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Re: Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Postby Jif » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:02 pm

Don't know about genius Danny, seemed like the obvious thing to do, but I have been tinkering about with music electronics most of my life :D

The stage I'm at now is trying different crank slots, changer holes and pedal/lever stops to get the action and feel of the pedals and levers to what feels right for me. It's quite a involved process getting the balance right across all pedals and levers, i.e. since there are up to 5 rods on each string, it's not possible to get every one exactly as I would like, so it becomes a trade off. I'm working on the basis of the most used changes taking priority and splitting the changes into different categories, i.e. long bends such as on the A pedal or switch type changes like the B pedal.

It didn't help that I made a rookie mistake on the crank function, I assumed, (assume makes an ass out of U and ME :lol: ), that slots further away from the shaft would give longer easier pulls when in fact it's the opposite, slots nearer the shaft gives longer and easier pulls, doh! Still it's all part of the learning process. Getting there now though, I'm waiting on some additional rods being delivered to complete a few different changes to my original plan.Hopefully get it to a playable state this week sometime.
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Re: Uni to Ext E9 Conversion

Postby Ken Byng » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:19 am

You're doing a grand job Geoff. One big thing that I love about modern MSAs is how easy they are to work on. Another is that Kyle Bennett is so great at supplying spare parts. I've just bought a cheap basket case Emmons push pull D10 (from a mate in the States) that had met a grisly fate by falling off a conveyor belt at NY airport. He's sending it to me this week, having negotiated a pay-out with the airport insurers. So I will now have a donor guitar with a busted cabinet and a ready supply of spare parts. A real piece of luck, as buying Emmons spares from the USA is a very expensive business. I'll be using plenty of lighter fuel as you have done to get rid of years worth of crap and nicotine. Thanks for the tip on the Regin Fan Assembly Oiler. I will now have to order a Regin unit on eBay. I normally use the perennial Teflon-based lubricant, and a watch oil pen (see below). Keep your process coming mate, and a joyous Christmas to you and your good lady.

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Watch oiler pen..jpg
Show Pro D10 (amber) 8 + 6, MSA Signature XL D10 (redburst) 9 + 6, Sho~Bud D10 (sunburst) Pro 111 8 + 6, Emmons D10 Push Pull - (black) 8+5, Zumsteel D10 (blue) 8 + 8, Hudson pedal resonator, 10 string lap steel. Telonics, Peavey & Webb amps,
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