Compensator rods v The laws of Physics

[Haddock]

Hi all
Thought I might share this issue to see if I am trying to reinvent the wheel! I have fitted compensator pulls to my G#’s that allow me to tune them slightly flat on the open chord to sweeten the thirds and then they lift a few cents when I engage the F lever so that my A pedal F chord is also on the money. It’s fabulous and I’m very happy.
However, and it’s the kind of 'however' that may in fact be a 'but', playing A plus F and then adding B creates an interesting issue. When I take B off and keep A and F engaged, the G#’s don’t drop back by anything like the full amount which should ideally be the micro tad F lever raise point. Cleaning the changer has been discussed but I have a feeling that this is a Laws of Physics issue and the drop isn’t ever going to settle in the same place as it did on the raise. I have a cunning plan in reserve but thought I might share first to see if anyone has wandered up this trail before me.
Very grateful for anyone’s input, even if it’s advice to 'get a life'.....
Cheers
Calum

[Danny Mitchell]

Calum, you will have noticed, by now, that I can't resist responding to posts, regardless of content.

My advice would be, rather than 'get a life', I would say, 'get a drink'. 'However', in matters technical, I tend to talk out of my 'but'.

I'll get my coat......

[Nick Bidmade]

This is the bug bear of steel players. Hysteresis (I think that's how it's spelt). Hysterics is what it causes. Are you using a Peterson tuner? It will show up every flaw that a pedal steel can demonstrate.
Cabinet drop.
String gauges.
Raises and lowers on same string.
Raises and lowers on different strings.
Splits.
Physics.
When you also add the bar we use to fret strings, any deviation from straight will be picked up by the tuner (except, of course, when we deliberately sharpen strings so they sound in tune).
The best advice I get from steel players is to tune up and then switch the Peterson off.
BTW What are compensators?

[Nick Bidmade]

See also

https://www.gunlaug.com/contents/music/ ... ities.html

Found on the US Forum.

[Haddock]

Thanks Nick
That’s a new link that I hadn’t seen before and yet another new issue to consider. I don’t think my issue is either the classic hysterics or this new one but all good to have in the melting pot. I’m guessing you’ve probably encountered compensation pulls but for anyone who hasn’t, it’s usually adding some small pulls to compensate for stuff like cabinet drop and often to sort the F# issue. This is when the f#’s change from being the 9th on the open chord to the 6th on the A B one. An extra pull to retune them makes a big difference. It’s something that can be used to minimise how much you have to 'sweeten' the tuning.
I’ve been persuaded of the joys of a Peterson by Danny but it’s not arrived yet. In th meantime I only need ears to tell me that I still have work to do.....
Cheers

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

Calum, you will not regret the Peterson, great bit of kit, what amazes me is how much great music was about before we had all this compensate type of equipment...... have a listen to John Hughey's "On and off Stage " album and try to find fault with it or the early Emmons stuff those guys would have sounded great on a plastic Uke. ...

[Ken Byng]

Thanks Nick
That’s a new link that I hadn’t seen before and yet another new issue to consider. I don’t think my issue is either the classic hysterics or this new one but all good to have in the melting pot. I’m guessing you’ve probably encountered compensation pulls but for anyone who hasn’t, it’s usually adding some small pulls to compensate for stuff like cabinet drop and often to sort the F# issue. This is when the f#’s change from being the 9th on the open chord to the 6th on the A B one. An extra pull to retune them makes a big difference. It’s something that can be used to minimise how much you have to 'sweeten' the tuning.
I’ve been persuaded of the joys of a Peterson by Danny but it’s not arrived yet. In th meantime I only need ears to tell me that I still have work to do.....
Cheers

Calum
I've fitted compensator rods to all of my guitars except my push pull, which operates very differently to all pull guitars and doesn't suffer from cabinet drop to the same degree as other guitars. The F# strings do sound out of tune with some chords. Get them in tune open and they will sound out of tune with certain chords, particularly the 1st string. Maurice Anderson showed me this phenomenon in 1975. Until Maurice demonstrated it, I hadn't really noticed it but after he did it stuck out like a sore thumb. That's when I got the temperament tuning bit, as Maurice had a new fangled Korg pro tuner that gave readings in cents.

The string that is mostly affected by body flex is a plain 6th on an E9 tuning. The problem is exacerbated by the Day setup, as the A pedal is closer to the centre of the pedal bar than with the Emmons setup where it is closer to the leg attachment. I put a compensator pull rod on my A pedal, that raises the 6th string just a smidge - enough to make up 2 or 3 cents which is the average amount of drop on a modern pedal steel. Some people will wonder why a compensator is necessary when most of the great players of yesteryear didn't bother. Well, the amount of work involved in putting compensator rods on a pedal steel is minimal, and I CAN hear my 6th string being out of tune on any of my all pull guitars including the superbly engineered Infinity and MSA guitars when I play a chord with my A pedal down. Hence why Lloyd Green uses a wound 6th string, as the de-tuning of a plain 6th would drive him round the twist.

[Donny Johnston]

I think all you techies just need to sit down and play the instrument. There I've said it now.

[Ken Byng]

I practice every day Donny. (Just having a break). However, when I get a new guitar, I spend approximately just one hour putting compensator rods in. Once they're in that's it, and there is rarely any need to tweak them. I'm happy that my guitars are as in-tune as I can get them so I rest easy.

[Stoney]

I read out the first post on this thread to my wife followed by “See, I told you it was a difficult instrument to play “. Her eyes glazed over and I didn’t want to tell her that I had only understood half the technical stuff anyway. Lol.