Up a gum tree

[Nick Bidmade]

I'm in trouble. I've changed springs recently and now seem to have 3rd string not returning to pitch, especially when F lever is used in conjunction. So, for example A+B+F lever sounds fine, and releasing B Pedal is also fine, leaving A+F sounding good. But, release the A +B pedals and the 3rd string doesn't lower fully. On releasing the F lever,the 3rd string drops with a bang. Something is binding or catching, but I can't for the life of me identify where or how. It's driving me nuts. It must be something to do with string tensions or spring tensions but everything I try seems not to work. Any thoughts or suggestions very gratefully received.

[robbo t]

could it be you put a weaker spring or a longer spring back

not really sure on the gubbins under a steel but just a thought

rob

[Ken Byng]

Nick - have you checked between the fingers of strings 3 & 4? You may have a ball end jammed in there. Ken

[Nick Bidmade]

Thanks for these - I don't think there's a ball-end in there, Ken - no string breakages since before it started to happen. Springs - possible... The only springs on the guitar (that I can see, anyway) are compression springs for tension, ensuring the finger is back at the stop, and for lowering notes on strings 2,4,6,8 and 9 - all a semi-tone lower except 6 which is a whole tone.
The guitar has been re-built by Bernard Curnow. I contacted him about springs and he advised what springs he had used originally and I replaced like with like. Somewhere along the line a couple of the lowers didn't have enough 'travel' once the tension had been set, so I added extra lengths of spring to achieve this. The main culprits were strings 3 and 4 = the thinner strings having to 'travel' further to achieve the semi-tone drop. Now I could understand if the springs were fouling when returning a lowered note to pitch, but the problem is with raises, which the springs don't affect i.e. string 4 F to F# and string 3 G# to A. I can only think Ken is on the right track - something is fouling the free movement of the changer between strings 3 and 4 but I can't see anything wrong. I am thinking about pouring lighter fluid over the changer to flush it out to see of that corrects things but it's really frustrating. I don't have the know-how to take the changer out so am a bit limited by my own innate lack of technical knowledge and ability.
I have tried slackening off hex nuts, have oiled (and oiled) to try and free up whatever is sticking. The B pedal does sometimes feel a bit 'creaky' i.e. as though it needs oiling but I've oiled the changer, the roller nut, the pedal bar and the bell crank.

[Nick Bidmade]

Trying to upload a photo, but can't. I have used Light Imaging Resizer before, successfully, but not this time! Will try again later...

[Zebedee]

Check that the 'F' lever nylon tuner (4th string raise) is not fouling on the 3rd string changer finger.

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

Nick, re. pictures, I use outlook express and if I right click on any picture up comes a box with several options, one of them being "send to" click on that and another list appears and one of those options is mail recip. click on that and send pic to yourself and it will make pics smaller ..... so, when it comes back ...just save it

not sure if other mail programs offer this simple solution but it saves me trying to work out that re-size thing

[Nick Bidmade]

Thanks Richard and John respectively. I will check specifically for the hex nut fouling as Richard describes and will remember John's advice re pictures.
I had a real good go at it today - loosened all the relevant hex nuts, took all the springs off and re-assembled. I seem to have pretty much sorted the 3rd string coming back sharp (and don't know what I did that was any different to when I changed the springs first time) - but, I've now got another problem... there's a loud click when engaging E to Eb lever (LKR on my guitar). It only happens once, the first time the lever is used. I have isolated this to string 4. I can go back and forth from Eb to E as often as I like without the click recurring, but if I raise E to F (LKL) or use the C pedal, (E to F#) then next time I lower the 4th string E the click returns!
Now, once again I've slackened everything off, tightened up again, but the click remains as described. No click if going F lever to C pedal and back again - just the 4th string lower.
Of the two problems, I'll settle for the click rather than the 3rd string going sharp, but it is frustrating to be spending what should be seat time under the hood instead. I'm envious of those people who say 'I don't need to adjust the guitar from one month to the next...
Once again, any advice or suggestions gratefully received.

[Ken Byng]

Nick
It may be the thread on the pull rod at the changer end causing the click, as it passes through the hole in the finger. Get someone to play the pedal and put your fingers on the nylon tuner. You may pick up the click through your fingers.

[Nick Bidmade]

Ken and Richard set me on the right path. Had another go at it today and noticed that the 4th string lower hex nut was 'twisting' as the lower was activating. It then 'slapped' down on the bottom of the changer and it was this causing the click. I took the rod out, re-threaded it in the 2nd changer hole to lift it away from the floor of the changer and after a bit of adjustment to the pull - BINGO - no click! I'd spent hours looking at the guts of the guitar trying to find this click and never once thought to look at the hex nuts while the note was being pulled. I then re-rodded the 3rd string that wasn't lowering properly after F lever used, and similarly, BINGO!!
The guitar seems to be well set up again. I do need to flush the changer through and am studying Jif's description. I'll have a go at this in warmer weather when I can do it outside. So, a new set of strings tomorrow and it should all be smooth sailing from now on (ho hum).
Thanks Ken and Richard!