Modern vs Vintage / Traditional PSG

[PosterBoy]

I've seen people talking about modern PSG on the forums is this to do with sound or feel?

If it's sound can you post youtube clips of the two please.

[henry]

I think it has a lot to do with a couple of things, which are tone and maybe the development of steel guitars in terms of complexity

A lot of early steel guitar has quite a bright raw, tone, which is fantastic and you dont hear so much these days.
This may have been to do with the simpler construction of the guitar and the changer in particular (see threads about all pull vs push pull changers)..

Since those days efforts have been made to make guitars support more complicated changes and to make them more playable and it is possible that this has changed their sound.

Also in teh early days of pedal steel, the players would have been lap steel players initially so may have had a different approach and a technique developed more towards lap steel playing. This may also have shaped the sounds they went for.
Nowadays, and since then, I think a lot of people get into pedal steel without having done a lot of lap steel before, so what they learn is how to do things with pedals where earlier players might have done things with their bar hand.

With teh more complicated changers came more options, so the modern PSG includes new sounds.
Also effects, amps, production, changes in taste, the evolution of music in general.

But in general modern steel sounds are much fuller and less toppy, maybe with more effects, more emphasis on pedals

Vintage: (simple changer, bright sound, nothing simple about what he plays!)


Modern(ish): Loaded pedal steel with a much softer tone. No flies on him either!


Of course this is just a generalisation and there are loads of players out there all doing their own thing and have been since the dawn of PSG!

Just my 2c

[Tony Russell Davis]

Henry is spot on about mechanisms. Tone is too subjective to say one is better than another, but there have been changes in the "preferred" sound over the years.
The main differences in mechanics are - some early guitars could alter a string up or down but not both. Then developments allowed more than one change to any string, then more - and so on until current guitars can change any string a number of times (4 up and/or 4 down is not uncommon) limited only by the capability of the string to take the battering!
For instance, Henry's Marlen has great tone, is (hoping you don't mind my saying) pretty old and has a mechanism that is limited without major surgery. BUT it can do as much E9th as Buddy Charleton's ShoBud in the video.
PS - that Marlen has an outrageously great colour combo! Well ahead of it's time.

[Malcolm]

The guys have summed it up well, over last few years going to Dallas show there have been fewer and fewer older guitars there ( ShoBud Emmons etc), and to be honest in my opinion the ones that were played did not sound as good as the "newer steels).One well known Texas player used an Emmons p/p and it was the worst sounding guitar at the show, I believe his pickup was wound around 11.5k ,thru a fender amp, it was thin, extremely toppy, and would have cut the head off you, like a telecaster on steroids.Nothing wrong with his playing just the tone.A lot of the older guitars had been rebuilt using modern parts , eg Showbud parts by James Moorhead and rebuilds by Ricky Davis, Emmons rebuilds by Lyn Stafford , Billy Knowles etc, but honestly didn't think this made a tremendous difference to their tone.
I know this will upset the p/p and ShoBud brigade, but I often wonder why Most of the big name players who started out on them, virtually all were playing "modern" makes later in their careers, eg John Hughey, and theBig E himself. I think that has been partially answered in previous posts, in as much the extra changes , smoothness , better pickups etc, but that does not explain when these older guitars can be made virtually new, by using modern parts on them , that these guys did NOT stay with them? All these guitars new and old are great, and it is just a matter of personal taste, everyone has different taste, so get what you like and please You,you are one who has to play it and like it, so don't bother to try to please other people , you just can't please everybody, in fact it is impossible.

[Malcolm]

Should have added I had a ShoBud for twenty odd years, great guitar, but my Mullen and MSA blew it away in both tone and smoothness.

[Nick Bidmade]

I suspect many of the pros were playing psg's under contract = freebies, in other words. What better way of getting your hand-built guitar 'out there' than giving it to a top player at one of the big shows? We see our favourites playing the new steels, and we all want one!
Another major factor, I think, is the development of split tunings. There's nothing worse that hitting a combination of pedals and levers that should, in theory, give a particular note or chord, only to hit a major dischord for the lack of split tuning. Modern guitars seem to hold tune and provide accuracy in pitch that wasn't available in the early days.
Other than that tone is very subjective and new amps can adapt to many sorts of sounds/tone - add a fewfloor pedals and you can make it sound like anything you like!!

[Tony Russell Davis]

Modern guitars seem to hold tune and provide accuracy in pitch that wasn't available in the early days.

Sorry Nick, can't agree. I have an pretty ancient Fender (1970s) that neither goes out of tune nor breaks strings. My, also old, Sierra (keyless) holds tuning impeccably and I've owned one, and worked on another, ancient ZB that was rock steady too. There again, I've tried to help more than one pal who had tuning problems with (no names, but respected) almost new guitars.
I really think that poor maintenance and/or neglect has more to do with it - both old and new.

[PosterBoy]

Thanks for all the informative replies. I feel a lot less clueless now

[Malcolm]

Tony, I believe a great deal of tuning problems on "modern" guitars are self inflicted by owners who don't know what they are doing, or as we call them up here "twaddlers".I have set up guitar of one of these gentlemen several times , as he keeps twaddling with it, and no amount of telling him "it is set up, don't f****** touch it " falls on deaf ears .I do add that when I started out I had no idea how to adjust the guitar and totally screwed it up.I was bailed out by Ron Bennett who sorted guitar out and took the time to instruct me in how things work and what to do, and more importantly what not to do.

[Ken Byng]

Malcolm
Re John Hughey and his decision to go with modern all pull guitars, I can assure you that I have it on good authority that in his final years he was trying to hunt down his push pull that he had recorded many many hits with, and indeed that I saw him play at the London Palladium in 1972. That rosewood guitar was one of the best sounding pedal steels I have ever heard.

You are soooo right about people fiddling with the mechanics on their guitars when they don't really understand what they are doing. It can cause so many problems, and it is worth people taking time out to understand what makes their guitar tick.