B+C pedals + E lower lever

[Nick Bidmade]

Hi Crowbear, Allan (and others)
I'm playing an old Sho-Bud that's had a good bit of fairly radical 'surgery' over the years, and now has a Curnow undercarriage.
There are no 'split' tunings available on the guitar as it stands. Your explanation though is very clear - same problem exists with A+B + VKL and A+B + RKL dropping 6th string.
Can a guitar without 'split' tuning be adapted?
Just interested, really: none of the above are a problem for me as the various moves can be achieved elsewhere or with some bar adjustments. Just trying to better understand the psg and its many complexities!

[Nick Bidmade]

John - love the Brumley move you described. You can add the 4th string to this for a fuller sound, ending up, as Jason suggested earlier, with a one fret drop, B+F. Not that easy to achieve with dodgy knees, but easier if you roll off the C pedal, again as Jason suggested.
Good stuff!

[SteelieAJK]

Nick
I don't pretend to fully understand (I prefer to spend time on top of my guitar rather than under), but splits seem to be accomplished by adding a compensating change. I have 6 split on my GFI which is implemented by adding a raise change on the lower action (RKL on my set up). I very rarely use the split, wouldn't lose sleep if I did not have it.
There are a number of threads on US forum explaining splits such as this .

[Nick Bidmade]

Thanks Allan - serious stuff, innit? I guess it's a bit like different copedents - you learn to love what you've got and get on with it!

[Jason Lynch]

Nick
I was having a think about this problem today (as you do). I think its about string tension.
If you've a string tuned to, say E, it is at a given tension, and you tune your E lever to release some of that tension so the string it now tuned to Eb.
Now step on the C pedal
Youve increaced the tension in the string, so it is now at F#, and if you now engage the E lever, it lowers, but not enough, so it sounds Sharp, because the tension on the string is different, so the ammount of release needed to lower it to F is different.
Make sense?
It did in my head, anyway!

[Will C]

Nick, I posted this ages ago under "Share a Lick" started by JD. Basically you use the form of minor chord you get by depressing the A&B pedals, with the root on the 7th string. The "walkdown" comes from hitting the 7, then 6&5 together, 8F (a semitone lower), then 6&5 together, 8(another semitone lower), 6&5, 8E(lower)(continue the movement), 6&5, 9, 6&5, then roll off the A pedal while 5 is still ringing, hit 6, then finish with an Amaj (8AF) - that's if you are playing Michelle in F, as I do.

Simples. And no messing around worrying whether a raise and a lower will cancel exactly without a split. This will work on all E9 steels that can raise and lower the E's. So that's maybe 95% or more. This sequence crops up all over the shop, once you can do it you'll start hearing it other songs.

Will C

[Nick Bidmade]

Thanks, Will. I've got the A+B + E raise, neutral and lower change pretty well. My enquiry was really a question about not being able to achieve a half-tone lower on a full tone raise and whether this is what 'split' tuning accommodates. I was also interested to know whether 'split' tuning can be added to a guitar that hasn't got them 'built-in' as it were. And if you can add split tunings to 'non-split' guitars, can you add them to specific strings only - ie 3,4,5,6 (assuming your guitar has 5 levers...) I'm just interested, really, to better understand the development of psg and how it works.

Thanks Jason, too - hope your deep thinking didn't get you overshooting the platforms!

[Zebedee]

Nick,
If you have a spare raise hole in the 4th finger, you can get an accurate split with the C pedal and E lever activated.

Run a rod from the E lever bellcrank to a spare raise hole in the 4th finger.

This is how it works:

Tune 4th string to the open (E) pitch at the keyhead.

Press C pedal and tune the raised (F#) pitch with the usual nylon tuner.

Press C pedal and activate E lever, and tune the string to the split note (F) with the usual nylon tuner

Release everything, then activate the E lever.
The 4th string will be below the pitch (Eb) that you want, so bring it back up to pitch with the nylon tuner on the newly added rod

If you haven't got a spare raise hole, then there's not much that you can do

[Nick Bidmade]

Thanks' Richard - so that's how it's done!
I don't have any spare rods, although I don't really use the LKV. In fact, I've taken off one the 10th string rod to add a first string raise F# to G on RKL, so the other rod could, in theory, be used for this, although I'm finding a bit of pedal or bar adjustment seems to do the trick well enough.
What, then, are the 'screw heads' that are often seen in photos of changers, sometimes in a row below or above the hex nuts? Are they a different form of 'fine tuning'?

[SteelieAJK]

Nick

nice explanation of both split mechanisms here