ZB S10 ...3 X 3

[Tony Russell Davis]

Bob - first impression is that there is plenty there to work with and get it going. Without seeing it for real I must assume that the lack of pins in 3 and 10 is due to breakages. If you don't snug the string-ball close up to the finger it can bend or even break the pin off. That's my guess, so you'll need to look carefully to see if there are holes there or bits of broken pin. Either way new pins need to go in. You might get at them by loosening the bolts that hold the changer assembly onto the tail casting to see if enough can be drawn up (keeping it together) to see properly. At some point I reckon you will have to un-hook the pull rods from the changer. It would be helpful to you to note which ones are paired up before un-hooking, and which cross rod they go to, but by the time you get to building it up again you should have enough knowledge to figure it out anyway - so don't worry too much; this is a complete rebuild after all! Pull rods look like ZB parts ( similar to bike spokes), with a turnbuckle for length adjustment. They should go (usually in pairs) back to a yoke on a single bell crank. As already said, I cannot see how it was thought that the system on there would work with a bell crank for each pull rod and bottom out the pulls together. You have examples of the yokes in pics. 3 and 4 of your last post.

[bob1]

Hi Tony thanks for the post.
Where I said 3rd and 10th finger has pins missing, the fingers are different to the others they have a groove as to set the string and ball end into.
Anyway Tony the Changer has to come out in one piece and stay in one piece I am going to note down to what finger and where on the finger every pullrod is going and to what yoke it is going as if it is going to aknee lever or pedal A,B or C I know that this is not going to be easy for a beginner, but Tony I am sure that I will get around it.
As for the Yokes yes there are 2 double yokes one connected to LLL going to 6 and 8 raising and the large one next the keyhead is only connected to LRL going no where, the third knee lever is RLL is going to 11 lower.
I hope this makes sense to you I will check the pedals as well and write all of this down for reference.
Thanks for now
Robin

[Tony Russell Davis]

I guess the 3 & 10 string ball-ends catch under a "fork" then? That is a system used by some makers and suggests those two fingers are replacements. Not too happy about a groove though. But if it works and you can live with the difference . . . it'll be easier to put strings on those forks, the pins are fiddly. Don't bother too much about which knee lever the pulls go to ("LKL", "LKR" etc. etc.) better to talk in terms of which fingers are pulled together ("raises both Es"; "second string lower" etc.) later you can choose which k/l suits you best for the particular change.
There seems to be only two of us, communicating through an open thread. Maybe this should become a new thread, "ZB refurb" or something? Then anyone else with ideas might input stuff, which I would hope. But we'll leave that to Admin?

[bob1]

Yes I was thinking about the thread I sort of came in and took over the thread was thinking I should have opened a new thread but as you say Tony we will leave it to Admin.
Anyway I have read and digested all of what has been written here and other forums on rebuilds and how the changers work not only ZB but others and to be honest it doesn't take long to be able to understand how all these mechanism really work to raise and lower different strings or strings together.
Anyway I am hoping to be able to get the changer out in one piece and then we can see fingers 3 and 10 and yes it is a fork not a groove for the strings to go on.
Thanks
Robin

[Zebedee]

There's quite a bit of tinkering to do on this ZB, and if it were mine, I wouldn't bother with a paint job, I would get the engineering done until it played effortlessly.
I would also abandon the two suspect changer fingers, and have it as a 10 string, E9 tuning.
The bell-cranks on the A B C pedal cross-shafts would be replaced by yokes ( so simple, yet so infinitely adjustable when connected to the cross-shaft by a threaded rod, courtesy of Zane's lateral thinking) and helper springs would (of course) be added

[bob1]

Zebedee you have made a very good point although the 2 fingers will take 2 strings just the fingers seem to be different and the A B C pedals are connected I have to just jot down where and what finger or fingers they are connected to.
The leg sockets are not in good shape the threads on one is pretty bad.
Anyway I think really the best think is get the engineering side of thinks working correctly and tuning and playing as it should I am open to any suggestion Really as you guys know what you are talking about as for me I have never done this before.
but I am always doing something challenging and this is no exception.
OK time for bed.
Thanks
Robin

[bob1]

Hi again anyone point me in the direction of the tuning for this steel 12 string 3+3. I think the best tuning is for a 10 string E9th with 11 and 12 lows it still means I have a 10 string with 2 extra string.
I hope I am making sense if not please correct me as it is the only way to learn.
Also I need 3 connections for the pedals I don't know what they are called, I need pedal rods the lot cos the pedals have no connections on them.
Thanks
Robin

[U_twelve]

Extended E9th. That's G# on 11 and E on 12. Not an uncommon alternative to B6/E9 Universal. Search in the American Steel Guitar Forum will yield loads of info.

BTW looking at your photographs I am of the opinion that the conversion from the ZB mechanism was carried out by Ronnie Bennet and since you say the pickup is one of his then that makes it almost certain. I used to have one of Ronnies fine guitars & the mechanics looked a lot like those but without those typically ZB balance beams and with square cross shafts. So if your looking for parts then maybe best bet would be to drop him a line. Used to have an email address, [email protected] but don't know if it's current. I'm sure someone on here will have his tel # .
atb
Pete

[henry]

i think his tel is 0151 608 4562

[bob1]

Hi Pete and Henry Thank you both very much for this information I bought this PSG on Ebay as I always like a challenge and thought right I will finish this restoration I was told it was 75% done.
I will see if I can get in contact with this gentleman maybe he can throw some light on this pedal steel.


I must ask all you good people do any of you know of any steel players/builders in Northern Ireland around or near Londonderry City as I seem to be on my own over here it would be nice to be able to go to someone or let them see this steel and another thing is I would like to get in contact with someone who would teach. I haven't been able to contact anyone and have ask musicians that I know from the early 70's who were in country bands had steel players they seem to have just vanished if some one could advise me I would be very grateful.

Thanks again
Robin