PSG build .. Is such a passion! BUT!

[bob adams]

I have such a passion for this damn machine, I would dearly like to make it affordable for new players young and old!
But can it be done???
I have spent many hours and sleepless nights trying to find a way!
So for those thinking about building a PSG! Factor these costs in to your equation!

Legs: £120
Pickup:£70
End castings:£80 a throw after you have paid for the pattern at a cost of £400 each end!
Machine Heads: £30 ++
Body: (cheapest ply and mica?) £80++
Bellcranks: cheap as chips once you have produced the extrusion (cost £500 for the die and £500 for the first run, yip a grand up front!) so lets say we need 14 …at a tenner a time .£140
Changer parts: fingers, housing, springs, sundries! Got to be £150 per machine min!
Headstock ! Another casting or alternatively some serious milling plus material! Ball park! £150
End casting leg socket threading! Who knows, lets say! £50 per PSG just for fun!
Neck: ok it could be wood not so expensive, but of course it needs a fretboard! (artwork, material, time!) £100 cheapest

So where are we at so far gents!
Starting from the top: 120+70+80+30+80+140+150+150+50+100
Surprise, surprise! Almost £1k without trying too hard! Did I count that right? I hope so!
That is our raw cost people!
So what do we sell it for to make us a living of any description!?
Let’s say 30% GP we would have to sell at £1372
Sorry Guys the instruments of choice simply cannot be produced for £500
If you want this machine you are going to have to pay for it!

The reality!

We are a specialist breed and are priced accordingly!

[Dave Nutt]

Wise words from a man who knows all the pros and cons.
I guess building a steel would be a labour of love and passion, I doubt the bank manager would consider it as a business plan.

[Ken Byng]

I fear that Bob has underestimated the cost of some of these parts. Just a quick chat with Dave Wheelhouse, who is one of the few actual UK steel builders , has convinced me that small run pedal steel guitar manufacturing in the UK would be a labour of love and not a commercial proposition. I bet Ronnie Bennett would say the same thing.

Dave outsources much of the metal parts on his guitars as it is cheaper to do this. His supplier must have set up the required jigs and everything for the end plates, pullers and cross shafts. (I was taken to task once by an American manufacturer for calling them bellcranks instead of pullers). Apparently bellcranks are the original Emmons and Sho~Bud devices with the round brass or stainless swivel rod holders or guides that clip onto the main puller.

None of the major manufacturers make a fortune from building pedal steels. The early 70's manufacturers prices that we had to pay were more realistic than those of today's prices. We are lucky to pay the equivalent of $5 - 7K for a steel guitar that is truly custom built when you see what goes into them. Those builders across the pond don't charge a lot for labour fees. I am having an exotic flamed maple body with mother of pearl inlays made for me by the worlds top pedal steel cabinet maker (Mark Giles) as a replacement for my mica D10 Zumsteel. I can't believe how much he is charging me as anyone in the UK making the equivalent would charge me 4 or 5 times the cost. Mark finishes his bodies in nitrocellulose for durability.

Price wise I'm afraid we just have to accept that our niche instrument is expensive and therefore a big outlay for the newby who won't know if he or she can make it as a player (we have all been in that situation). It's why I keep 6 steel guitars at home for teaching on for novices who are in two minds whether to play the instrument or not.

Great post Bob.

[bob adams]

I so hate to stifle passion Ken especially in things PSG and I know many dream of producing a PSG.

The thinking it all out is the fun bit, but the reality of any ‘Pro Capability’- ’Value Guitar’ is not where many expect it should be price pointed.

Yes I did err on the optimistic side here and there for the above reason but I am all too aware of the true raw costs. There is no doubt that such parts can be produced much cheaper in the US, refinishing especially where their lacquers are petrochemical related products and reflect the same saving! (Dirty dear over here.)

I have talked with CNC guys, casting shops, extruders, even purchased legs from ‘many miles east of us! But the numbers don’t stack for anything other than a bespoke instrument which of course is where Dave sits, and nicely done it is too!

I merely suggest, ‘Think it all through before nipping down to B&Q!

I would love to hear anybody’s thoughts on how it could be done cheaper.

[ubique]

A very interesting topic Bob. I, like a lot of members have progressed to the steel from guitar and it wasn't until I got my old ZB SD10 that I fully appreciated what went in to making one of these instruments. Complicated is an understatement, and looking at pics of the underside of a D10 just boggles my mind! My point is, most guitarists, initially anyway till they see the light, lust after one of the top brands, Les Paul, Strat, 335 etc and will gladly pay a couple of grand to get one. Even a USA Tele costs a fortune. And what do you get for you money. The answer is, not very much compared to the amount of skill, parts and workmanship that goes into a PSG. A couple of grand for good quality PSG doesn't sound too bad to me.

[Ken Byng]

Carter, Zum and a few others have tried and indeed have successfully succeeded in building cheaper starter guitars, but the Carter in particular has attracted its critics. Somewhat ridiculously some folks have compared these models to pro guitars. You can't cut corners and still end up with a guitar that will begin to compare to the pro models. There are planks and then there are planks. Not all are equal.

the legs and endplates are where my ideas hit a brick wall, Bob. Making them from parts, much like my BMI, is the only idea i have. Legs...? Dunno yet.
I've an idea for a much easier and cheaper starter changer, and some ideas to cut corners re undercarriage and key head. (it would be a beginners model after all!)
as you say, planning is always the fun bit. The practicalities are where i came unstuck first time around.
I may even look into wiring my own pickup. We'll see about that one!

[Malcolm]

Jason, could buying legs from likes of Suncoast be useful, their legs look reasonably priced, believe they supply some US Makers.Ken bought a set at Dallas( light weight, although they do both types).

That's possible Malcolm thanks. I'll look into them.

[RonMc]

This is how I did the 'chassis' on mine.

Ron

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