Tone: Instrument or player?

[Zebedee]

I've been playing PSG for 30 years now, and, discounting the first 10 years when I was developing as a player, I realise that all the steels that I have played (except one) sound virtually identical when played by me.

One steel (my Emmons push-pull) has slightly better clarity than the rest, but, when listening back to recordings I have made, I honestly don't know what steel I was playing.

The only steel that I can distinguish straight away is a Carter that I used to own, as the tone is very nasal, and I couldn't get 'my sound' out of it. It must have been a Friday afternoon / Monday morning 'lemon'

Which brings me to the point of this post; I think that most of the tone is in the player, (his amp settings, his picking style) and only a very small proportion of the tone is contributed by the instrument (or negatively contributed, in the case of my Carter)

[Tony Smart]

I think it depends on the steel. Some brands have a distinctive sound or tone, while others not so.

People talk about tone is all in the hands, but I don't see that. The sound that comes out of your amp is a mixture of your technique, touch, feel, your thinking, amp settings and the inherent tone of the guitar. So really you have to clarify whether you're talking about just the guitar or the overall sound. In my view your overall sound is going to sound similar, but not the same on different guitars because of these factors.

I can hear a difference when Buddy plays his Zum against his Emmons. When this argument raged first time around on the SGF Maurice said it was all in the hands and every instrument could sound the same. At the time I was one of the few who disagreed and Maurice was decent enough to accept another opinion without getting ratty.

Well, does a Strat. sound like a Tele? Would people pay exorbitant amounts for a Stradivarius if tone was all in the hands? I can definitely say that my Emmons and Franklin have a different tone. They both have quite distinctive sounds. An MSA universal I had years ago had a distinctive tone but not easily identifiable. In actual fact I find you play differently according to the tone and feel you get on different guitars. Some things will sound better and therefore work on one brand, but perhaps not quite so well on another.

Of course Buddy Emmons is not going to sound like you if he played your guitar. His technique etc. is going to give him his signature overall sound.

Everyone has their own take on this - you can't help all being wrong......

Good subject for discussion, please join in.

[Malcolm]

I think majority is in the hands, I have had Fender, Springfield, ShoBud, Mullen and MSA, Used with different amps and effects, eg Vox, LAB, Nash 400, Profex/DPC , Nash 112, MB200, various effects, and guess what, they all sounded like me.The Mullen and MSA had lots more sustain and are much smoother to play! but over all it still sounds like me! So my conclusion is most tone comes from hands.

[Zumbilly(Murdoch)]

I have,at the moment two pedal steels and I have never played them side to A/B them.If I do play them with a time interval between I cannot hear any distinct difference.I can honestly say that I cannot even remember if I alter My amp settings differently for each guitar.When I did a regular pub gig We often had pedal steel playing friends popping in and I always enjoyed letting them have a few songs on My guitar,with the exception of one,they all played with MY amp settings and did not sound like Me.The other gent I mentioned always altered the eq and tone settings to sound like himself.
Good subject.
Billy

[Ken Byng]

Mmmmmm. This is an old chestnut, but it is always an interesting debate.

Like Tony, I used to talk through the merits of tone with Maurice, but by email rather than the forum. His sweeping statement that all pedal steels can be difficult to tell apart had one caveat. Maurice wanted to be in control of the tone knobs on any amps that were being played through in a guitar shoot out. I think that it emanated from the fact that the Emmons push pull guitar had this almost mystical and legendary quality about its tone which made it desirable among the masses. The early MSA guitars had a fairly dark, mellow tone that wasn't popular in the Tennessee clique of players. I think that altering the tone controls in a guitar shoot-out just defeats the whole object.

When a steel player plays through an amp, it is the style, technique and individual method of picking and bar control that give a player's sound rather than tone. I can hear a difference between my Emmons and Show Pro immediately. What I play through both in terms of style will be the same, but tone-wise they will be different.

[WineRider]

I really thought someone was using my name in vain, but then I came down to earth and realised they were talking about someone who had sense. I am new to steel guitar but not to music and I would like to add my two penneth. No two people sound the same on an instrument. Phrasing, delicate touch, use of vol. pedal, interpretation of the music is all personal. But if you listen to different players they all have their own riffs and runs along with phrasing. So you can tell them apart. It doesn't matter what I play, I'm me...crap may be but still me. Instruments are the same as singers who use their voice. I think players should be themselves not try to copy other players. What would be interesting is if 10 players had the exact copy of some tabs and recorded their playing, then possibly there could be an answer for all.

Maurice