Tips wanted on Pedal set-up....

[tonewheelkev]

Hi All....and Happy New Year!

.....have been a bit quiet recently, as I have rebuilt my recently acquired steel, and reverted back to Emmons setup.

Had to re-manufacture spring return/stop plate from stainless steel L-section.....and now have everything just about sorted.

Some spring tensions still not correct.....am using trial and error to get this right.....is there another way

Is there a 'correct' way to set-up ABC pedal height.....should A be higher than B & C.....struggling a bit here!!?

All comments gratefully received!!!

Kev

[Zumbilly(Murdoch)]

Hi Kev,
Well done on the rebuild.
Hopefully Richard Burton will answer the "spring" question.He is not called Zebedee for nothing.
I would guess that most players do have the A pedal higher than the B. It is purely a matter of trying to see what suits You.
I have My A pedal higher.
Good luck
Billy

[Uffe]

Hi Kev. This is how my ABC pedal looks like in heght. I guess this is a pretty normal position for the 3 E9 pedals ABC.
Uffe

[bob adams]

Yip Uffe, That is where a lot of guys have the ABC pedals. Kev forgive me if I'm stating the obvious but not everybody realizes that your springs are only functional on the lowers , the guitar's own string tension forms the return balance on the raises (and btw the thin strings have the greatest tension not the thick ones another misconception) So....... Your spring wants to be adjusted to return from the lowest pull eg if you are taking your 6th string down a full tone the spring must accurately return it to pitch if the spring is too slack it will not return and it will also affect the raise (that is not a contradiction to my earlier remark but if your springs are too slack you have altered the entire balance of the changer!and nothing will set up right) The classic problem ones are that 6th string lower and the the 4th which has the distance between Eb and F# to cope with, it is always the troublesome one on Emmons push pulls. With the guitar upturned pull any of the lowers levers and check that the changer finger is returning to butt against that plate you have just made, if it returns short of that you have issues!
So again! Springs to pitch then leave them, over tightening will only make pedal and lever action excessively stiff! not all changer mechanisms are the same some are very free running and others can be less so.

[tonewheelkev]

Ta for the pic Uffe.....a great help to me!

....and thanks Bob for the explanation!

Take string 4 (E)...
LKL returns leaving string sharp......pitch only corrects after LKR returns...does that make sense?

....So, fails to return to E after raise to F, returns to E after lowering to Eb.....

Also probs with RKR.......string 2 (Eb) won't lower as far as C#

.......I'm reading your comments again!!!!

[bob adams]

Hi Kev,

Take string 4 (E)...
LKL returns leaving string sharp......pitch only corrects after LKR returns...does that make sense?

....So, fails to return to E after raise to F, returns to E after lowering to Eb.....

Yip only two possible issues first would be spring tension not balanced, second 'not so likely but it happens', pull rods fouling.

Also probs with RKR.......string 2 (Eb) won't lower as far as C#

Entirely different issue Kev and sometimes hard to achieve. firstly if you have a raise on the 2nd it could be engaging when you pull the lower rod, if you have no raise on it upt the guitar on its side and carefully catch the lower finger with grips or pliers and manually pull it to see if the mechanism has the capability to go down to the note, if it does your fix is bell crank positions, if it doesn't then you are stuffed, without removing the finger from the changer and taking a piece off it to allow the extra travel. Can't guarantee it but it works on Buds! (That's insider info mind!!)

[tonewheelkev]

Hi Bob....

Yip only two possible issues first would be spring tension not balanced, second 'not so likely but it happens', pull rods fouling.

......think I can rule out fouling...so will change spring....will try more tension (I think!!)

.....see if the mechanism has the capability to go down to the note.....

Is the mechanism up to it??....am coming around to that conclusion that it may not be....Oh bugger!!!

[Zebedee]

Bob,
Your initial explanation is not quite right.
The tension in the lower return spring must be enough to hold the lowering finger segment tight against its backstop when the string is fully raised
If the spring tension is not enough, there will be a pivoting action around the changer finger rivet during a raise (due to the increased string tension) which will cause the lowering segment to lift away from its backstop

By the same token, if the lowering spring tension is too high, the pivoting action will be reversed, and the string will raise in pitch when the changer is in 'neutral'

[Donny Johnston]

I'm glad I know f--k all about this, leave it to those who do. Just because I can drive I don't need to be a mechanic.

[tonewheelkev]

...Know what you mean Donny....but I'm on my own here, and needs must, as they say!!