Re: SUSTAIN
Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:49 pm
Ken, I might have been grateful for an extra quarter of an inch when I was a younger man...... but at my time of life I feel it would make very little difference 
All I can tell you is I have spent about 4 hours today trying to copy yet another of Mike Johnson's fabulous solo's on a push pull that does not seem that much different to mine and I reckon Mike can keep a note ringing until he gets fed up with it..... and if I could get within 3 miles of what he is doing I will be in steel guitar heaven!
The kings new clothes comes to mind or, lets do something different and sell lots more steel guitars
.... I don't know and probably I am completely wrong but, was John Hughey not looking to get his old push/pull back almost up to his death?
Play his on and off stage album and tell me there is no life after the 12th
Just my humble opinion not looking to fight
All I can tell you is I have spent about 4 hours today trying to copy yet another of Mike Johnson's fabulous solo's on a push pull that does not seem that much different to mine and I reckon Mike can keep a note ringing until he gets fed up with it..... and if I could get within 3 miles of what he is doing I will be in steel guitar heaven!The kings new clothes comes to mind or, lets do something different and sell lots more steel guitars
.... I don't know and probably I am completely wrong but, was John Hughey not looking to get his old push/pull back almost up to his death?Play his on and off stage album and tell me there is no life after the 12th
Just my humble opinion not looking to fight
Re: SUSTAIN
Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:01 pm
John - when Buddy designed the push pull, one of the earliest criteria was that it should have a 24 and a quarter inch scale. Fact. http://www.buddyemmons.com/TEGuitar.htm
There must have been a good reason why Buddy did that. Everybody else has copped that design for whatever reason. Certainly nothing to do with the emperors new clothes - a somewhat ridiculous analogy. As with most things, Buddy got it right first time.
Mike Johnson plays guitars with a 24.25" scale, as did John Hughey all those years ago. Not 24" but 24.25". Please don't keep digging or you will cover yourself.
There must have been a good reason why Buddy did that. Everybody else has copped that design for whatever reason. Certainly nothing to do with the emperors new clothes - a somewhat ridiculous analogy. As with most things, Buddy got it right first time.
Mike Johnson plays guitars with a 24.25" scale, as did John Hughey all those years ago. Not 24" but 24.25". Please don't keep digging or you will cover yourself.
Re: SUSTAIN
Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:19 pm
Well, Thank you for the enlightenment Ken, that Explains a lot, both the push pulls in my front room are 24" scale so that must be why I don't play so well ..... must check the Black one as well. I guess MJ's is a different thing altogether....
This is why not so many contribute to this site they are afraid of getting burned for their opinions..... wish I had got mine the way that Buddy designed it
This is why not so many contribute to this site they are afraid of getting burned for their opinions..... wish I had got mine the way that Buddy designed it
Re: SUSTAIN
Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:35 pm
I didn't want to burn you John, but felt I had to correct some misnomers.
Matt Park has a problem, a physical problem with his guitar, and I thought it was a smidge insulting to tell him to improve his use of the volume pedal to overcome the lack of sustain. The lad has been to my place for a lesson, and believe me he has no deficient technique with his volume pedal. He has a really good ear, and that's why he has picked up on the decaying notes above the 12th fret on his guitar. Exactly as I did in the past with my own 'Bud, and perhaps Lloyd may have done with his early 'Buds.
We should all pitch in with ideas, some will be on the right track and others won't. But please don't belittle an idea if you know little or nothing about it.
PS - my push pull is 24.25" scale. Maybe Lashley Snr or Jnr tinkered with the scale lengths at some stage, I don't know.
Matt Park has a problem, a physical problem with his guitar, and I thought it was a smidge insulting to tell him to improve his use of the volume pedal to overcome the lack of sustain. The lad has been to my place for a lesson, and believe me he has no deficient technique with his volume pedal. He has a really good ear, and that's why he has picked up on the decaying notes above the 12th fret on his guitar. Exactly as I did in the past with my own 'Bud, and perhaps Lloyd may have done with his early 'Buds.
We should all pitch in with ideas, some will be on the right track and others won't. But please don't belittle an idea if you know little or nothing about it.
PS - my push pull is 24.25" scale. Maybe Lashley Snr or Jnr tinkered with the scale lengths at some stage, I don't know.
Re: SUSTAIN
Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:02 pm
John - when Buddy designed the push pull, one of the earliest criteria was that it should have a 24 and a quarter inch scale. Fact. http://www.buddyemmons.com/TEGuitar.htm
That may be the case according to that page Ken but the FACT remains all my push pulls are 24" scale and I think if you check yours you will find it to be the same....in fact was Buddy's "The Blade" not a standard Split tail as is my 70 and 71 D10's.
And I very much doubt Mike Johnson has has his tweaked to 24.25
I find it offensive the way you talk down to people on here, you may know more than most of us on here but your delivery is very unpleasant and I think deters people from posting.
Re. Matt
Matt and I have been insulting each other long before you met him and it was me that sold "the lad" that guitar and the first few lessons he had were from me and I have the greatest respect for him.
I will not respond further to this post Ken you can have it all to yourself.
Re: SUSTAIN
Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:23 pm
JohnDavisStringsHere wrote:John - when Buddy designed the push pull, one of the earliest criteria was that it should have a 24 and a quarter inch scale. Fact. http://www.buddyemmons.com/TEGuitar.htm
That may be the case according to that page Ken but the FACT remains all my push pulls are 24" scale and I think if you check yours you will find it to be the same....in fact was Buddy's "The Blade" not a standard Split tail as is my 70 and 71 D10's. And I very much doubt Mike Johnson has has his tweaked to 24.25
Utter nonsense - mine is 24.25. I used an accurate measuring device to measure my Emmons, not my wife's tape measure from her sewing box.
Re: SUSTAIN
Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:41 pm
Lads, let's all be friends and temper our comments with "in my opinion". This site is too valuable to have people fall out, especially two of our most frequent and knowledgeable posters.
John, with respect, are you sure your pp's are 24" ? I've never heard of any that length. I've always known them to be 24 1/4" and I've got some of the first Emmons catalogues with the stereo pups. Do you think someone may have worked on them? Having said that, they must have Emmons fretboards that are calculated for 24". - Bit of a mystery.
Don't throw in the towel John, let's have your reply. You and Ken may be having a bit of a temporary disagreement here, but don't forget there are others (especially beginners) who want all the info. they can get.
One little trick you can use to increase sustain above the 12th fret is not to damp the strings behind the bar.
You've got to use your loaf with this as you don't want a lot of string rattle or stray harmonics. It can work well quite high on the fretboard with strings 3 and 5 using the usual pedal combinations. Also strings 3 and 4.
It also doesn't help if you've got old strings on.
John, with respect, are you sure your pp's are 24" ? I've never heard of any that length. I've always known them to be 24 1/4" and I've got some of the first Emmons catalogues with the stereo pups. Do you think someone may have worked on them? Having said that, they must have Emmons fretboards that are calculated for 24". - Bit of a mystery.
Don't throw in the towel John, let's have your reply. You and Ken may be having a bit of a temporary disagreement here, but don't forget there are others (especially beginners) who want all the info. they can get.
One little trick you can use to increase sustain above the 12th fret is not to damp the strings behind the bar.
You've got to use your loaf with this as you don't want a lot of string rattle or stray harmonics. It can work well quite high on the fretboard with strings 3 and 5 using the usual pedal combinations. Also strings 3 and 4.
It also doesn't help if you've got old strings on.
Last edited by Tony Smart on Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: SUSTAIN
Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:50 pm
Ken if I am wrong then I apologise but I am measuring with a metal tape where the string leaves the roller.
Re: SUSTAIN
Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:54 pm
Tony
As always the voice of reason. Buddy experimented with scale lengths and the 24.24" scale was a compromise of sustain and minimising string breakage. All Emmons fret boards are the same - for 24.25" scale.
John - apology accepted. I have been described as 'taking no prisoners' by one member, and I know I can be abrasive with my responses sometimes. Passion can occasionally result in raising the temperature in a debate. I am not always right and would be the first to acknowledge that fact. But this thread was not about me, it's about trying to help a younger member with a problem that he has identified. Lets all agree on one thing. Buddy Emmons' achievement of the smaller bodied push pull with the 24.25 scale is the tone by which all other guitars are measured. Mike Johnson has 4 of them, and loves the tone of the p/p right across the tonal spectrum. Mike has the best touch of any player I have seen and heard. I was in a locked room with him for a half hour or so at Dallas once, and he played my guitar. He made it sound incredible.
Matt will not get an answer to his problem by bickering and one-upmanship, and that includes myself.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 58a35dc43a
As always the voice of reason. Buddy experimented with scale lengths and the 24.24" scale was a compromise of sustain and minimising string breakage. All Emmons fret boards are the same - for 24.25" scale.
John - apology accepted. I have been described as 'taking no prisoners' by one member, and I know I can be abrasive with my responses sometimes. Passion can occasionally result in raising the temperature in a debate. I am not always right and would be the first to acknowledge that fact. But this thread was not about me, it's about trying to help a younger member with a problem that he has identified. Lets all agree on one thing. Buddy Emmons' achievement of the smaller bodied push pull with the 24.25 scale is the tone by which all other guitars are measured. Mike Johnson has 4 of them, and loves the tone of the p/p right across the tonal spectrum. Mike has the best touch of any player I have seen and heard. I was in a locked room with him for a half hour or so at Dallas once, and he played my guitar. He made it sound incredible.
Matt will not get an answer to his problem by bickering and one-upmanship, and that includes myself.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 58a35dc43a
Last edited by Ken Byng on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: SUSTAIN
Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:15 pm
Tony, I have to concede Ken is right about the scale but I have to measure it right in the middle of the nut and roller bridge to make it 25 1/4 I was measuring where the strings left the rollers so apologies to Ken for my mistake but certainly not for anything else I might have said. you will not get anybodies opinions on anything on here if it does not become a little more user friendly.