LKL B pedal minor chord

[highrisejesus]

Hi All

I am wondering if there is something wrong with the mechanics of my Carter SD10. According to most pedal steel instruction on minor chords, the most common way to get a minor chord is to lower the 6 string a whole tone (LKL) and press the B pedal to bring that up to a semitone, thus giving you a minor. I can lower the 6th string a whole tone, but applying the B string in conjunction with this doesn't do anything. So I can't achieve the semitone unless I take the LKL down halfway, and this is not accurate. Can anyone suggest what the problem might be, or if this is just part of the Carter design?

Thanks

Nick

[Zumbilly(Murdoch)]

Hi Nick
I am not conversant with the Carter, but to do the move You are suggesting the guitar has to have "split" tuning. You can ascertain if Your Carter has this by looking for a row of tapped holes and some allen screws just behind the changer,if so there is a procedure for setting the raise/lower.
I am sure someone will chime in soon.
Billy

[highrisejesus]

Thanks for responding Billy. That sounds complicated but I will check that out. I hope someone may be able to explain how to make the adjustment, if this is possible.

[Nick Bidmade]

Not sure I agree this is a 'common' form of minor chord. You've got your A pedal, E lever, B+C pedals and a sneaky minor using A+B pedals on strings 76&5 - seems like enough for me to manage!

[henry]

Hi Nick, might help if you posted a pic of your changer.

I dont know if what ur suggesting is the most common way to get a minor chord though.

If you press down your A pedal, you get a C# min chord open, if you lower your Es you get a G# min and if you press B+C you get an F# min.
I reckon those are the most common ways to get minor chords. Not all steels have the change you mention (mine dont), and as others have said you need to be able to tune the split to make it work..

There is an explanation of split tuning process here but I've never touched mine.. just left them as they were!
http://steelguitarbuilder.com/forum/vie ... ?f=4&t=227

[henry]

ha.. Nick you beat me to it!

hope all is well in the new home?

[Nick Bidmade]

Hi Henry - yes, settling in well in Geordie-land. Natives friendly so far... hope to find some live music soon - maybe even find some players looking for psg... we live in hope.

Nick - didn't intend examples given as the only ones available - there's also 1/2A+B plus 5,2&1 with semitone drop on string 2...

I like the full tone drop on string 6 (and I don't have a tunable split changer) - use it where you can and eliminate those changes that don't work. Another good example of a change that doesn't work is B+C pedal + E lever = horrible (although if it did work there's a lovely 'falling' minor chord sequence... you just have to find alternatives voicings/positions that do work on your guitar.

Enjoy!

[Will C]

I know the inversion that Nick is trying to get, I use it a lot because it's a way to get an alternative minor 6th chord. My steel is slightly different in that the RKL drops the 6th string, but only a semitone. That means I can get the minor chord without "adding back" the B pedal, which requires splits.

So I lower the third note of my major chord with the knee lever, hey presto! a minor - and if you use the A pedal too you get the m6 chord. I struggle with the idea of lowering 6 by two semitones anyway, because that's what you have a 7th string for!

[Tony Smart]

For anyone not familiar with it, here's what actually happens with Splits. (All pull guitars)

If you've got a string that raises and lowers you can get a note in the "middle" with a "Split tuning"
For example, take the 6 string that can go up to A on the B pedal and down to F# on a knee, - you can get the G note with a split.

If you press the pedal and knee together the resulting note will be G but a bit too high (sharp). With pedal and knee engaged you can lower it with your nylon lower adjuster and get the G note in pitch.
Trouble is when you go to just lower the note, it will be flat - as you've previously over adjusted the lower adjuster.

What they do to bring the lower back up to the right pitch is either 1) add another rod to the lower bell crank and attached to the raise side of the string so that the string will lower and raise on the same knee. By adding this extra rod you can adjust it to bring the string back up to pitch.
2) I believe the system with the allen screws does the same thing but by using the screw to limit the over lowering factor instead of a rod.

My Franklin uses the rod system and if you raise the string before you lower it and tune it to pitch, it's OK. However, if you lower before you raise, the note is slightly flat. Mind you when you're using it you don't have time to mess about. It's pot luck.

Clever idea though.
p.s. With the socket screw method I can't see how you could lower on another pedal/knee, beyond the pitch on the split lower.