RKL +RKR Tuning - Help!

[Charlie Brown]

My Bennett's started doing some funky stuff with the right knee levers...

I had RKR set up to drop a whole step on the second string and LKR to raise first string a half step. It worked like a charm when I received it, been playing it for the past three months but I've recently started to experience tuning problems.

The hex nuts for my first and second strings have become stiff like camel soles. I remember tuning these two pedals when I received the PS and the hex nust were sort of stiff but I managed to tune them perfectly. I can now barely get past lowering a half note on the second string and the first string never reaches a full half step (the lever travel is also shorter? when I try to tune it I do open string first, tune it, then press the lever, tune it again... and my open string tuning goes completely off... tried this a couple of times but it won't stay in tune!). I can hear a "kching" of the springs if I try to apply more pressure, doesn't sound like I'm doing it right or there's something wrong with the mechanism.

I've also noticed that pedals A+B appear to be in tune on my tuner (open strings and when pressed) but they don't "sound" perfectly in tune... Is this and the stiffness on the first and second string hex nuts common when strings are worn? Time to change strings?

Thanks guys

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

You need to study the mech. a bit so you can figure out how it works, it sound like you might have "locked it up" by doing the nylon hex rod ends up to tight ? there are guys on here that know a lot more about it than I do and I am sure they will put me right???? I would start of slackening them right off on that particular finger so the mech is neutral (relaxed) then retune the string .... I am sure Bob has a picture on here somewhere that would show it clearly.... bob! Bob! BOB!??

[Charlie Brown]

thanks John, that is exactly what I did, slacken the hex nuts and then try to retune, with no luck... open string is in tune but when lever is pressed it's a no no.

trouble is, I've checked again and the tuning on most levers and pedals is completely off!!! argh!! does this happen when strings need to be changed? I'll pop in a fresh new set and see what happens

on the RKR it seems like the spring wont return to its "idle" position, I can push it with my finger and it goes back half a cm to the position where all other springs stay... I'll probably have to replace that (where do I find replacement springs???)... what I just did is loosen the screw on the lever (the one that touches the wood) for more travel and that did the trick, I get an extra cm or so when pressing the lever right/left but I dunno if this is the right way to do it.

[SteelieAJK]

As John says, sounds like you have over tuned the hex rods. Slacken off gradually until the change does nothing, then retune a bit at a time. If the open note pitch is affected by adjusting the hex before the full change is tuned, you are over tuning, in which case you'll need to adjust the stop on the lever to allow a longer throw.
(I had a problem like this last year during a heat wave, pretty sure was due to expansion of rods)

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

You might wanna try some lube on the mech I use 3 in one, not WD40 as that stuff washes all the lube out..... Sometimes steels get sold that have spent 10-20 years under the bed.... mech parts need to be used/serviced...... re spring you may get a little more tension if you shorten it slightly if you can`t find a replacement....

[bob adams]

Sorry JD!

Charlie.....

I had lad at me a few years back with an LDG, nothing was right, it was all over the place having been set up properly when he got it (not from me). The reason!!! all nylon tuners over tightened. It is more common than realised. Those hexs are required for fine tuning not for a two note change, that is done by the stop adjustment at the lever or pedal end, if that is set up to allow sufficient travel to go to or just beyond the desired note then the hex fine tuning will be minimal, your tuners are getting stiffer because, 1. They are engaging with the changer finger and 2. They have gone beyond the rod thread! If it is all mucked up I seriously suggest you slacken the lot and set it up properly.

The start point having removed the nylon tuners:

A. It is essential is that all fingers and (where possible) all springs are in perfect line (as per attached pics)

B. Put the nylon tuners back on and set them just touching the finger (as the guys on a mill would tell you, a cigarette paper off!)

C. Adjust your stops at the other (pedal or lever) end to go to or just beyond the desired pitch,
NB: (the bellcrank positions should be as close to the cross shaft as they can be while still achieving the pull)

D. Then lastly any ¼ or ½ turns on the nylon for final pitch.

(Allan I see you said this in part I just can't say one bit without the whole sequence!)

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[Charlie Brown]

thank you so much guys (and thanks for making the effort to understand my messages, my "terminology" is all wrong, he he). I'll pop in a new set of strings and start from scratch -

one more question if I may, how often do you change your strings? do they suffer a lot from the action of the pedals/levers?

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

one more question if I may, how often do you change your strings?

Becky would like you to change them every other day...... But then, She is in the string business

Sweaty hands, outside gigs... you usually know when the life has gone out of them.... If you play regularly I would say about once a month if you want that nice bright sound.... You will really notice the new ones on the first few gigs with them on.

[Charlie Brown]

once a month!!!! Good Grief!!!

I guess it's definitely time to change them... apparently, my Bennet spent a few years under a bed and it's been played almost every day for the past 3 months

[Charlie Brown]

update - changed strings (took a while!), slackened all hex nuts, retuned ... works like a charm! thanks bob and everyone, I really appreciate your time

the spring on my RKL is still a little slack and the mechanism won't return to the position where all other springs are sitting,... argh. works anyways... doesn't go out of tune, I'll leave it as it is for the time being.

I also noticed that the round thingamabobbies on the bell crank finger that secure the rods were a little loose (whatever they're called... they're small cylinders and have an allen screw to stop the rod from moving while attached to the finger) so I tightened those and my B pedal doesn't go out of tune any more, alrighty!