Lose the C pedal?

[Haddock]

Innocently browsing one of the US forums I came across a topic about losing the C pedal and changing it to drop the G#’s a semi instead. I have to confess that it hit me like a slap in the face from a large fish! Has anyone ever tried this?
Cheers
Calum

[shobudpro]

The first time I played a pedal steel I couldn't believe this change wasn't on it, so I put it on RKL, consequently I don't use C pedal much but hadn't considered putting it right there on C itself, food for thought!

[bob adams]

Talk to Davie Holland! Calum, way to much use in that 'C' pedal.... my setup is 0.A.B.C and 0 drops both G#s a half tone, Franklin full tone lower of 5 and 10 is on pedal four and the left vertical raises the 6th a tone and a half! ...... works for me!....... But all as you say is .. food for thought!

[Haddock]

Interesting set up Bob. Haven’t seen that vertical move before! I think what I found most interesting about the forum thread I was reading was how ‘free’ lots of folks seemed to be to experiment. I’d never really considered changing C. No, hold on, I did put a tone lower on 10 on the LDG but I don’t need that now with my extra two strings....
And I’ve already got two of the G#’s lowering on a half stop on F so perhaps this would be silly as I do occasionally use C . Might need it less though as I’m adding another raise on my 0 pedal so that it lifts all the E’s a tone (only does the two low ones now) and that gives me some of the C pedal stuff.
A circle in a spiral.......

[Haddock]

G#’ half lower on D (RKL)! I should never try and discuss this stuff without being at the steel! Then again, it does get confusing with all the different ways of naming the parts....

[simon_f3]

I have to confess that it hit me like a slap in the face from a large fish! Has anyone ever tried this?

Yeah, I tried it once but it really hurt my cheek and I could smell fish for days afterwards... (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

I have RKL dropping string 3 by a semitone (G# to G natural) but it doesn't do the other G# on string 6. That's just the way the guitar was set up when I got it, and I haven't got into using my right knee much just yet. Aside from going from major to minor without moving the bar, is there an inherent advantage to being able to dropping the G#s by a semitone?

[Ken Byng]

Some interesting ideas.

Buddy Emmons got rid of the C pedal later in his playing career, as he said it was not a great deal of use to him. He experimented with different changes on the C pedal afterwards. See the 'Ask Buddy' pages on the internet. However, when I watched Lloyd Green at very close quarters last year, he played his B and C pedals almost as much as his A and B pedals. I asked him about it after he finished playing, and he laughed and said that there is a huge amount of things that you can incorporate with the C pedal. He reckons that most players are missing a trick by sticking mainly to the A and B pedals.

So there you have 2 conflicting views from 2 of the great players of all time.

Last edited by Ken Byng on Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Haddock]

That’s very interesting Ken. I didn’t think that one of the Greats would be on the list of C losers. Will check out the ask Buddy pages as you suggest. I’m personally finding that since adding my two low strings, the goalposts have moved considerably as I have lower root notes to work from. I seem to spend a lot of time working between A and 0 pedal now and the E lower on LKR going to E raise on 0 gives me a 3 semitone lift In 3 different registers which is quite distinctive.
Every day I find the instrument more and more fascinating. So many different ways to skin the same cat (or fish)......

[Haddock]

Yeah, I tried it once but it really hurt my cheek and I could smell fish for days afterwards... (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

I can see that I’ll have to be more careful with my punctuation in future!

Simon, I think it’s quite unusual not to have the full tone drop on 6 on RKL. It certainly one I use a lot and is one of the classic 'steel' moves. My 11th string does the same but I think I’m too scared to try it on 3- always delighted when I can get that in tune without snapping it.........

[Jif]

I don't use the C pedal too much but I do like to use the bend up from E to F# on occasion, of course you have the F# on string 1, but the bend sounds sweet taking the root up to the 9th. I can get G# to G on string 6 on a split, B pedal raising a semi and LKL dropping a tone, not on string 3 though. Mainly use this split for a minor, but I'm sure there are other uses. As Calum says, I use the tone drop on string 6 a lot, it's a nice bend up too from F# to G#, same bend on open strings as the A pedal bend on AB pedals down.

Here's a visual example of the hypothesis put forward by Calum