Building your own?

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Re: Building your own?

Postby flester » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:01 pm

ALmost done. Note the classy paper fretboard (made in MS word). Also I lost one of my pots in the shed, hence one hole. Piece of maple flooring made the plate for the pots, might make another one for the pickup surround.

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Any thoughts on string gauges and tunings? I've started with a set of heavy gauge electric guitar strings and open G tuning just to be able to make some sounds but I can see everything sounding the same after a while. Whats a good tuning for general playing? I'd normally be playing with people in C, G, D and related minor keys
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Re: Building your own?

Postby Will C » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:41 pm

Flester,

You could do a lot worse than to join the steel guitar builders' group:

http://steelguitarbuilder.com

They are very welcoming and helpful. You will pick up tips, inspiration, everything you could ask for.

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Re: Building your own?

Postby flester » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:26 pm

Thanks, I'll check out the steel builders site.

One query I have is on the tone control. I used a 250K log pot and a 0.033uF capacitor. It works but nothing happens over most of the range. Do I need a different pot? The volume pot is also 250K log and works fine.
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Re: Building your own?

Postby flester » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:38 pm

Also, pro's and con's of different types of tone bar?

Ones with handles like a Dunlop Lap Dawg http://www.thomann.de/ie/dunlop_926.htm, or the cylindrical round-ended type http://www.thomann.de/ie/dunlop_921.htm?

Currently using a spark Plug socket which sort of works OK
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-40964-2-Inch-Square-Hi-Torq/dp/B000UQDIBW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1363869389&sr=8-2
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Re: Building your own?

Postby Tony Russell Davis » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:20 pm

Hi - you seem to have been ignored for some time. How you getting on? Here's some observations - and are my preferences, nobody can be dogmatic about this stuff but I guess you just want some place to start. By the way I haven't managed to see any of the pics. on flickr, so I'm assuming you've made a six string guitar.
Tuning - you could do worse than to check out C6th. There are several variations but all of them include the notes of a C maj chord plus an "A" somewhere in the mix. Typically (lo to hi) CEGACE for a six string. You can get GHS 8 string sets and then work out whether to use 6th - 1st or 7th - 2nd (i.e. G on top or E on top). Keys of C, D and G are pretty well situated on the neck working off; "C" the nut/12th fret, "D" the 2nd fret, and "G" the 7th fret. Keys of D and G have loads of open strings available.
I made and use 7 (and 8) string guitars and have C6th with the G on top.
Tone & Vol pots - you will find many guitars that don't have one (or either) leaving the business to the amp settings. However (assuming a single coil "standard" guitar p/up) a 250 log pot for each and a 0.022uF cap. would be a good place to start.
Bars - you should get a bullet nosed bar. Plenty on the market at all sorts of prices. Maybe you should choose by price at this stage! The Dunlop 921 is typical of what you need. (I use a Dunlop 920). Maybe about 7/8in diameter and of a length to suit the guitar - long enough to touch top and bottom strings and very little more is usually good. The weight is also a condsideration - heavier for tone, lighter for easier movement, hence it's a compromise!
Lap Dawgs and the like (generically - "Stevens" bars) are usually used by dobro players who (typically) tend to lift off and hammer on with the bar and the grooves help to avoid dropping it. Electric lap steel is played in a different style and very few serious players use a Stevens bar. If you want to play the licks that need that kind of bar you probably should have gone for a dobro in the first place. Once you get into bar slants, especially ones that need the voice three strings but only at two frets (i.e. str.3 at 6th fret, str. 2 AND 1 at fret 7) you need a bullet nose to achieve it.
Good luck, and don't forget to let us know how you're doing? Tony.
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Re: Building your own?

Postby flester » Sun May 18, 2014 11:46 am

Thanks for replies. I changed the tone pot for a liner taper and that improved matters.

Going to fit legs to it next using fittings from an old coffee table. https://www.flickr.com/photos/37071329@N02/14018197039/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/37071329@N02/14201882731/

Probably just non-adjustable but removable hardwood dowel legs for playing sitting down. WIll take your advice on the bar, though I started with a shubb Sp1 becaue it is literally the only one I could find in a shop anywhere nearby. What length is recommended? Its a faily narrow setup,string spacing like a standard electric guitar

I'm sort of stuck in open G tuning at present playing basically blues riffs b ut ready to branch out a bit.
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Re: Building your own?

Postby Tony Russell Davis » Mon May 19, 2014 11:11 am

Got to see your guitar at last - nice pics. TalkIng of which WHERE ARE YOUR PICKS :o :o The guitar, by the way, looks good in all the right departments. Solid base, good looking non-adjustable bridge with a flat top, machines tending towards a straight pull over a flat topped nut. Great job and it should serve well.
To be really PICKY (get the drift here*) the PICKup is (no, really) a bit far from the bridge. I know that it's installed now but if you get the building bug you'll want to make more and it will help to look at some" PIC..." - sorry, PHOTOS :lol: of Fenders, old Gibbos etc and see roughly where the p/up goes in relation to the bridge. That will help the sound.
Seriously; talking about picks, you should start practicing with them. I know this is a foible of mine, but it's supported by most if not all of the experienced players on here and elsewhere. Their opinion and advice is genuinely put forward for the guidance and development of newer players and they who ask for help (nobody really needs to spend an hour or so typing up replies just to annoy).
Try a forum search on the subject of picks and read some of the comments - and reasonings - that have been laid down in the forum for posterity, don't just take my word. Look for the posts of the great plank players like Basil Henriques. Baz knows as much as anyone in the world about steel guitar, in ALL of it's forms, and considerably more than most.
*But stay friends?
Best wishes, Tony.
Oh, length of bullet-nosed bar; as said before, it needs to just touch bottom and top strings. Any longer and it is unweildy, any shorter (there can't be many - if any - bars so short they won't cover 6 strings!) and your slants might not reach all notes. Remember that you usually drag the tip back towards you for playing on the lower strings, leaving your left middle finger to damp unwanted upper strings as the bar clears them. I use a Dunlop 920 for 7 and 8 string guitars (that's not meant as a recommendation :oops: I just use that brand as a descriptor as Mr. Google can easily bring up the dimensions for reference [that's not a recommendation :roll: for Google, I just use that as a descriptor for search engines ....] oh - trying to avoid litigation, so tedious, let's just get back to playing steel guitar :guitar: :guitar: )
Fender SM T-8: Shakey 10-plank: Ricky 6: Harmony H7 R Smeck,: plus "home-mades"
Fender D-10: Sierra D-11:
Resos- Goldtone 8 string & Regal 7
FenderTwin: Peavey Delta Blues: Marshall AS50R: DigiTech>GK MB200->Telonics 15"
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Re: Building your own?

Postby flester » Tue May 20, 2014 12:58 pm

Tony, thanks for the feedback on the design. It ended up sort of chunky cos I had to join the pieces I had. I see the local toolshop has various hardwood slabs which may serve for the 2nd generation.

For the pickup placement I looked at electric guitars for want of a better source. Might have room to shove in a second one closer to the bridge, or rout out a new cavity and cover the existing hole with some kind of pick-guard. Actually everything is movable (nut, bridge, fretboard) so there's some scope,
I struggle with the fingerpicks but will have a look at the related discussions and give them another go.
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Re: Building your own?

Postby Basil Henriques » Tue May 20, 2014 11:32 pm

Hello Flester, am I correct in assuming your from the general area of "The Banks" or do you just visit ? Fota I mean, not Spike Island. !!

OK, picks are essential if you wish to get a 'Solid Tone' (Dunlop 0.0225" would be ideal), pick-up placement is essential if you wish to obtain (perceived) sustain.
String gauge is essential to avoid tuning problems with bar pressure, and the type of bar for lap steel is a round-nose or Bullet bar as Tony said.(Essential to execute 'Split Slants'.)
Other than deep south open string blues, the heaviest gauge your guitar will take with comfort is what you should aim for.
Pickup height should optimally be about a smidgeon less than the thickness of a £1 coin. Any further and the sound could be a little hollow, any nearer and the magnetic pull will affect the tone and create "Wolf" notes.. (Not Wolf Tones, that's a different undesirable sound)
Many Many years ago Gibson, Rickenbacher and others found that placing the pick-up as near the bridge as possible reduced the transient to sustain ratio, not very important if you're going to play on your own, but TOTALLY essential if in a combo or using backing trax etc. Why, is a deep discussion and I WILL get into it elsewhere on the BSS Site later on. Trust me I do know a little about pick-ups...

Nice piece of wood, should have tons of sustain, and I like the narrow radius of the bridge, helps prevent string 'Whining' (usually caused by radii of more than 1/4") Pedal steels are prone to that problem as the changer fingers usually have an axle of that size and a radius of nearer 3/4".
Two and a half turns 'round the capstan on the tuners is optimum and after the first turn at it's uppermost point, you should direct the string the other side of the hole for the rest of the turns.
The shape at the top of the shaft is concave, the same as a ship's capstan, and achieves the same purpose. (As the string tightens it locks in on itself this way..)
Worm gear, tuner buttons and capstan are the correct terminologies for the component parts of the 'tuners': 'though many nowadays use shaft, which is incorrect as a shaft has essentially straight sides.

A resistor in the vol/tone circuit is used to 'bleed' the high frequencies as the pot is turned down.

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Many examples HERE

More to come later.. If you wish..
BTW if you ARE from Contae Chorcaí, you may know of me as Basil Hendricks.. Sin é mo ainm.
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Steelies do it without fretting
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Re: Building your own?

Postby flester » Thu May 22, 2014 11:13 am

Yep, Cork boy!

I think I'm definitely playing it a bit like a Dobro, sort of 'deep south open string blues' as you say. Also my pickup is not that close to the strings but thats something I can do quite easily,

I'm about to fit some legs (3). Any thoughts on placement? I was very loosely working off this design http://www.vintageprojects.com/woodshop/SteelGuitar.pdf
which has one leg at headstock and 2 at the bridge end. But I also like the Fenders which have a leg at each end facing the player, and another in the middle facing away.

Interesting design on Vintageprojects by the way, they make their own pickup, and seem to have invented their own 12-string layout/tuning
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