Greetings GB Steelies! Your Wisdom Please...

[HonkyTonkDan90]

Welcome Dan and I have to say, I like your style! Joined the forum at 8.15pm, first post 9.42 and less than 18 hours later, bought a cracking steel guitar!

Yeah I know didn't expect things to move this quickly myself - and as of yesterday my Carter had been delivered, set up and been trying figure out some basics. Ordered 4 tuition books; Winnie Winston, Hal Leonard Method, Hal Leonard Chords & Scales (can't go wrong with chords and scales) and '100 Hot Licks For Pedal Steel Guitar', but they're not arriving until tomorrow, YouTube in the meantime. Finding Jonathan Gregg's videos rather helpful.

Just another wee heads up, relatively young Dan,
The eezzee slide bar that's up for sale is a great buy, if you've any dosh left! Congratulations, btw, that sounds like a beauty.

When it dawned on me that my PGS was being delivered the next day, I hastily bought a Shubb SP2 on Amazon because I get free next day delivery with prime and I wanted to have 'something' atleast. But Jonathan, who I bought my Carter from, recommended getting a BJS from Gerry Hogan (http://www.steelguitars.co.uk), which I fully intend to do when I've considered it abit more. Such a minefield. So most people playing 10-string use a 7/8"? What does that even mean, is it the length or the diameter? Regarding the eezzee slide, no doubt it's as good as you say, but like the seller, think I'd prefer the feel of cold steel.

So I just bought a good optical one on eBay and thought ‘that will do fine’! So wrong! Only a matter of time before the addiction kicked in and I ‘had’ to buy a Hilton.

Think there's a medical term for this...sounds like you have G.A.S (Gear Acquisition Syndrome)! A volume pedal is high on my list of things to buy, but can do without whilst I figure out the very basics, like forming chords, scales and what the pedals and levers all do. I do have an old Cry Baby Wah Pedal, haven't used it in years. Wasn't aware it could be a volume pedal too, am I missing something?

Question whilst I'm here. What are your thoughts on finger/thumb picks. Seems like most PGS players use them. I've always absolutely hated them on six string, and what I have so far found is that where as I can really easily arppegiate triads (that's about as far as I am atm) fingerstyle on the PGS, my co-ordination goes to s*** with picks and I'm like a clumsy 4 year old. The thumb pick I can just about cope with. Tonally though, I see the appeal in picks for the sound that they give. Do you any favourites? Heard people mention Alaska Picks as feeling more naturally. I want to give picks a chance, but right now they're severely limiting my ability to do anything, just like they do on a six string (other than the classic plectrum sort of course)!

[Haddock]

Re the picks. I think its more than just the tone and they really help picking out individual strings and getting a good firm pluck. I moved over from banjo so was already used to them but it still took time to adjust to all the extra strings. And then I moved on to 12 strings!
Stick with it despite the ‘4 year old’ effect and it will just suddenly start happening. Might take a while to find the ones you like best. I’ve ended up with a speed pick thumbpick, Dunlop on index finger and a Dr Sherpa on ring finger. And little pointy picks when playing banjo as the angle of attack is different.

Your Crybaby is probably just a Wah but some of them did do volume too. It will do as a footrest in the meantime to get your right leg at the correct height.

Happy picking!
Cheers
Calum

[Danny Mitchell]

Re - Thumb/Finger Picks.
"When one is in the bedroom, making sweet, sweet music with a beautiful new acquaintance, one should always wear the requisite equipment, which will protect one from contracting and passing on STDs (Soft Tone Deliveries)"

It took me around 2 months to get used to the damned things. (a Herco, blue, thumbpick and Dunlop .25 fingerpicks) A lot of trial and error in getting them shaped (the degree of curvature around the finger tip) and even the angle worn (so they pluck the string head on), but there's no getting away from the improved clarity, tone and sustain you get through using picks. It's just a wall that you've got to get over.

Re - Tone Bar
BJS seem to be the preferred choice, I'll get one myself one of these days. At the moment I use a 1 inch Pearse and a 7/8 EezeeSlide, and I find the extra weight of the Pearse gives better sustain and the lighter Eezee is better for faster tunes.

Re - Volume Pedal
I think it's actually a good idea to start without one and concentrating on getting the hands and other limbs working first. Calum's idea of using the Wah Pedal as a footrest is excellent. The pedal's used for sustain, and getting this right is an art in itself.

Here endeth the tuppence worth of someone who knows nothing. Reader Beware!

[HonkyTonkDan90]

Thanks again for all your help. Totally was the awful plastic (yeah I know) picks that I was using. I found 1 random brass (I have a nickel allergy) dunlop 0.020 in my guitar bag and I find that I can play pretty happily with that, so ordered several more. Was browsing steelguitar.co.uk, saw the National NP2's along with the warning not to get NP1's as they're only 0.023 as supposed to 0.025 (oh the horror) so I must be some kind of madman using a 0.020 ! Might look at getting some NP2's in brass though.

Great advice about using the Cry Baby simply to get used to the foot possitioning, definitely going to do that right away. There are articles detailing a simple procedure to open up the Wah pedal and turn it into a volume pedal, but no idea what became of my soldering iron and was also pretty happless with electronics so just gonna save up and buy a propper one.

P.S Loving the PGS so far! Just got my head round how holding down the A+B pedals or A+F lever relates to the A chord and D chord shapes on the 6-string. Equipped with the circle of fiths I'm starting to cook with gas !

[Zebedee]

I don't think 'guitar chords' when I play psg (even though I play a lot of guitar).

As an example, I would consider the A+F lever to be part of a 'pocket', being the same chord 3 frets above a chord, anywhere on the fretboard. By stopping pressing the A pedal, it becomes a seventh of that chord, and vice versa, by not activating the F lever (but pressing the A pedal) it becomes a minor of that chord.

If we go back down the fretboard 3 frets, with no pedals or levers activated (called the open position) we are back at the base chord.
Now press the A + B pedals, and we are at a major chord equivalent to the base chord but 5 frets up (or 7 frets down) This thinking applies anywhere on the fretboard.

This is a small fraction of my way of thinking on a psg (after 35 years of trying to play one), it might be useful to you, or maybe other seasoned players have a totally different way of viewing the instrument

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

Richard, one of your best and most helpful posts for Nubies! I could not have explained it better myself ! Top man

Last edited by JohnDavisStringsHere on Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Donny Johnston]

I think the choice of picks to use is getting used to them being there in the first place, I walked around the house wearing them until they just become part of your hand, and then finding out which gauge suits you best. 40yrs ago I started using Dunlop 0.25 picks, I eventually moved on to 0.18 picks and felt them to be more comfortable and to suit my style of picking the string. One day in my local music shop I decided to buy some 0.18 picks, they didn't have any at the time but had some 0.15 picks I tried them and have been using 0.15 picks for at least 20yrs and find them to be very comfortable. Swings and roundabouts. Donny.

[Jif]

Welcome Dan and good luck with your first pedal steel acquisition. You appear to have done a lot of research into the instrument and that is a good thing as there are a lot of aspects to playing that are not obvious on first glance.

I play the MSA Legend 12 string Universal that Danny mentioned, previous to this I owned a Carter 12 Uni and it was a great steel, good tone, solid construction and easy to maintain, so I reckon you will be pleased with your purchase of a Carter.

Previous replies have covered most of the bases, here is my 8 farthings worth.

It's all about tone.

Generally it is better to spend more and buy equipment that fits the purpose, this saves time and wasting money, i.e. volume pedals, better to buy a vp that is made to be used with pedal steel such as a goodrich, hilton or telonics. Volume pedals will either be passive, (pot control), or active, active pedals are obviously more expensive. I use a passive Goodrich which I'm happy with. It's also an idea to think about the height of the volume pedal, as you also use the right leg to work knee levers and if the pedal is too high it can make knee lever use difficult and uncomfortable, low profile volume pedals are available as well as standard height. Unfortunately this is often down to trial and error to see what works for you and your steel. My goodrich is a low profile model but others use full height models.

Picks, I started playing without picks, I use my nails on guitar. I soon started using picks on steel for the following reasons,

(1) Tone - I couldn't get that metallic ringing sound that is typical of the pedal steel using my nails which gave a softer tone.
(2) I found it easier to get the right hand shape wearing picks and as Calum pointed out it is easier to pick individual strings.

It took me longer than Danny to get used to picks. I really struggled with picks for months and at times wondered if I'd ever get used to them but glad now that I persevered. Type of picks are very much personal and I tried many types before settling on what I use now, which are a Dunlop L10 thumbpick and Old 97 short length banjo picks. Fortunately picks are not expensive so it doesn't cost the earth to try a few different types until you find what suits you.

Bars, again a bit of a minefield and often down to personal preference, I have a BJS and others but my favourite and used 90% of the time is a bar I bought from a guy on the US forum, a Nu Generation Red Barn front weighted bar. I have tried Calums bar from Bens Bars and it is a good un' at a good price.

Strings, again down to preference, John Davis sells SIT strings on this forum at a good price, decent strings, personally I prefer either Live Steel Strings, Jagwire or D'Addario NYXL's. I'm currently tending towards the NYXL's for their clear, clean tone. The problem with Live Steel Strings and Jagwire is that they are only available from the US, both are about $14 for a set of Universals but then an additional $14 for postage which makes them £20+ for a set. NYXL's work out at about the same total cost, £20+, however I prefer to pay a bit more for the tone and uniformity of response over all the strings.

Of course the hardest thing is getting started and becoming familiar with how the instrument actually works in practice, it's difficult at first and can often seem like an impossible task. However perseverance pays off and when you start getting it, it is the most rewarding instrument to play.

Did anyone mention how addictive an instrument it is

[HonkyTonkDan90]

I don't think 'guitar chords' when I play psg (even though I play a lot of guitar).

As an example, I would consider the A+F lever to be part of a 'pocket', being the same chord 3 frets above a chord, anywhere on the fretboard. By stopping pressing the A pedal, it becomes a seventh of that chord, and vice versa, by not activating the F lever (but pressing the A pedal) it becomes a minor of that chord.

If we go back down the fretboard 3 frets, with no pedals or levers activated (called the open position) we are back at the base chord.
Now press the A + B pedals, and we are at a major chord equivalent to the base chord but 5 frets up (or 7 frets down) This thinking applies anywhere on the fretboard.

This is a small fraction of my way of thinking on a psg (after 35 years of trying to play one), it might be useful to you, or maybe other seasoned players have a totally different way of viewing the instrument

Thank you very much for that nugget Zebedee, makes sense and currently sat at my PGS mulling it over . Will be interesting to see how my thinking changes over time to be more pedal steel specific.

I use a passive Goodrich which I'm happy with. It's also an idea to think about the height of the volume pedal, as you also use the right leg to work knee levers and if the pedal is too high it can make knee lever use difficult and uncomfortable, low profile volume pedals are available as well as standard height. Unfortunately this is often down to trial and error to see what works for you and your steel. My goodrich is a low profile model but others use full height models.

Is it an L-120? I desparately need a tuning wrench and only place in the UK I can find to buy one is on Gerry Hogan's site http://www.steelguitars.co.uk, so gonna give him a call tomorrow, but whilst I'm at it I'm strongly considering getting a volume pedal. Don't want to break the bank anymore than I already have done, so inclined towards a Goodrich H-120. From the description it seems like a solid pedal and at this stage I probably wouldn't know a whole lot better. I'm only 5ft9", so the thing about long legs doesn't really apply and by my measurements it's probably roughly similar height to my Cry Baby Wah that I'm sitting at for the sake of reference. So reckon the H-120 is probably a safe bet.

In terms of strings, I've already broken one and replaced with D'addario EPS490's, which were ironically cheaper than the half-rounds that I use on my six-string. Certain amount of brand loyalty involved

Thanks all!

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

Dan, if it helps you for 140 pounds I can send you a used Goodrich pedal a tuning wrench and a BJS bar a set of strings (as were endorsed by Buddy Emmons)plus a small selection of used finger pics..................? and my best wishes