The British Steelies Society

Are there any superb uk builders?

Tim

Ronnie Bennett
Dave Wiggins

Not a bad bet picking up a used or brand new one from thomann - the 8 string harley benton is great.

There are a few things that really frustrates me. About lap steel makers generally.

1. New companies or inexperienced lap steel manufacturers think they can charge top dollar for a lap steel.

2. These companies don't work with experienced or knowledgable players thus are unaware as to the needs of the players that are dead obvious.

3. Just because a plank of wood has a nice finish it doesn't make it a good steel guitar.

4. Companies that have little experience need to humble themselves and take advice where possible.

5. Companies are also blissfully unaware of revolutions that happened to the lap steel so these inferior pieces of crap enter the market.

6. Just because a guitar magazine likes the look of the lap steel and write an article about how amazing it is. Doesn't mean it actually is.

7. If a lap steel is old it doesn't necessarily make it good

To close. Lap steel guitars on the market should not cost more than guitars made from luthiers who now next to nothing about the instrument. I don't care how many violins it guitars they built. If they aren't players or don't consult with players they will never know what is required.

Ps. There are a few lap steel manufacturers in the UK and I haven't met one that knows what they are talking about but ALL the ones I have met dong have a clue and are so arrogant that they think they should charge top dollar.

I am not sure I understand where you are coming from here Stefan. Who are the companies you refer to?

You are making some very bold and personal claims about the shortcomings of builders - how can you be sure of their lack of experience? How can you be sure they aren't players themselves? Just because they don't build to your personal specification doesn't mean they build them wrong - there are a lot of different styles and personal preferences out there.

And as for price, sure a hand built guitar is expensive - it takes a lot of time and love to build an instrument. A luthier in the UK can't buy the materials alone for less than the cost of a chinese import instrument. And unlike builders of regular guitars, you can't buy off the shelf hardware - you have to make your own bridges and nuts etc. My cheapest model for example sells for £699, which might sound a lot, but at that price I am working for below minimum wage.

If you genuinely have personal experience of builders who really don't know what they are talking about, perhaps it would be a good idea to list them here for the benefit of the rest of the lap steel buying community?

Fair comments Andrew,
Both of your guitars look stunning and the prices you are stating seem very fair for hand crafted instruments.
Are there any videos of the guitars being played? Would be good to have a listen.

andrew wrote:I am not sure I understand where you are coming from here Stefan. Who are the companies you refer to?

You are making some very bold and personal claims about the shortcomings of builders - how can you be sure of their lack of experience? How can you be sure they aren't players themselves? Just because they don't build to your personal specification doesn't mean they build them wrong - there are a lot of different styles and personal preferences out there.

And as for price, sure a hand built guitar is expensive - it takes a lot of time and love to build an instrument. A luthier in the UK can't buy the materials alone for less than the cost of a chinese import instrument. And unlike builders of regular guitars, you can't buy off the shelf hardware - you have to make your own bridges and nuts etc. My cheapest model for example sells for £699, which might sound a lot, but at that price I am working for below minimum wage.

If you genuinely have personal experience of builders who really don't know what they are talking about, perhaps it would be a good idea to list them here for the benefit of the rest of the lap steel buying community?

Hey Andrew

Needs of players are quite specific to playing lap steel guitar. (Just like a normal guitar there is a minimum standard required)

Experience as a player or from a player would help to clarify this for those companies.

Costs aren't that expensive dare say. To build a professional standard instrument that could easily rival Chinese costs.

Biggest expense is the painting which is non-essential as a lot of players like to see the wood grain.
Then the pickup
Then hardwood
Hardware
Fretboard
Setup and labour plus shipping

Done
Had one designed with all the bells and whistles and delivered international at a really competitive price.

That's what I'm talking about as well. Eg. Having a hardwood fretboard is non essential with frets etc. a nice to do but not crucial. A professional setup is the MOST important. As it offers the player all the options required for playing steel.

Hi Roy

Thanks for your kind comments.

Are there any videos of the guitars being played? Would be good to have a listen.

Unfortunately there are not any videos at the moment - social media is not really my forte (I've only just started engaging with this forum despite having been a member for several years), but I appreciate that it is something I am going to have to get on board as people expect it these days.

I shall endeavour to produce something but please be patient with me - it is not going to happen overnight, but hopefully should be able to do something within the next month or so.

Thanks, Andrew

Hi Stefan

I don't really want to get into a big debate on this one, but without meaning to sound arrogant, I do feel that I am more qualified to speak on the subject of what is involved in building a lap steel.

Biggest expense is the painting which is non-essential as a lot of players like to see the wood grain.

All guitars need finishing - whether you apply a colour finish or a clear finish the process is the same. It is tedious and time consuming and involves spending a lot of time with some pretty nasty chemicals. Not my favourite part of the process of building a guitar I have to say. If you don't apply a finish the pores in the wood will continue to be affected by the humidity in the atmosphere causing all sorts of problems, not to mention the fact that the guitar will become filthy in no time.

Set of decent tuners: £50 + - I note you like 12 string guitars, so multiply by 2

Decent pickup: £50 +

Acceptable quality piece of hardwood timber: £20 +

Fretboard: £xx (depends on choice)

Lacquer and other finishing supplies: £15 +

Hardware - bridge, nut, control plate, ferrules, knobs: £xx

Electronics: Pots, wiring, jack socket etc: £xx

Other - pearl dots?, binding? etc

That's the list for a basic guitar, not to mention workshop overheads etc.

Chinese import laps can be had for less than £150

A professional setup is the MOST important. As it offers the player all the options required for playing steel.

There is actually very little set up required for a lap steel once built - no frets to dress, no truss rod to adjust, bridge is fixed, string height is fixed. Only thing you need to do is set pickup height for optimal tone. Then tune up and play.

And I don't believe there are many (if any) builders out there who are not players - it is because we are lap steel enthusiasts that we are inspired to build them.

If it were just for the money I would get better hours and more money working at McDonalds.

Cheers, Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Just a thought, I have built 1 solid body guitar, 3 lap steel guitars all with legs. Still can't play diddly squat, but those who have played my guitars say they have a nice sound.

Fist question to me was: Why don't you make them and sell them. My reply is always, no one would want to pay the costs of a hand made lap steel, when as all the arguments seem to be costs from buyers.

So I sort of did a straw pole here in France:

Very few new what a lap steel was.
Others new but didn't understand the concept.
For me I think your guiatrs are priced pretty close to minimum, taking into consideration time, effort, knowledge, the style concept, tech. drawings. then there comes the assembly, finishing and finally the test play etc. And finally how many can you actually sell in 1 year in a market that has seen many LSG makerrs go to the wall because there just aren't sufficient orders.
I take my hat off to you or as the french would 'chapeau' you deseve to succeed, the two models look cool. One small comment about your site, it could do some optimisation and have you thought about making your site iphone friendly, because by the start of next month Google will be docking web postion if the site cannot be read by all iPods, iPhones, Tablets et all.

Just a thought how far are you from any of the BSS good pickers, who might if approached play and record a couple of tunes or a medely on the two guitars and put them on the site.

WineRider