Second pickup

[flester]

My self build has one stratocaster type pickup in the 'neck' position and i want to add another near the bridge where most lap steel seem to have one. Thinking of telecaster type as the string spacing is like a 6 string guitar. Any thoughts?

[nevada150]

Hi Fiester,
I have a Tele bridge pickup on one of my home-builds. It's a "hot" pickup made by Warman and I got it from eBay. I think it was around £15. It gives a good bright sound and the output is enough for any overdrive or distortion pedal, if that's what you want.
Good luck,
Keith.

[Tony Russell Davis]

The usual and most optimum place for a single p/up is two or three inches from the bridge, so you're quite right to pop one in there. The reason is that a steel guitar can be played way higher than you normally would on a regular guitar and, because the tone changes when the bar gets nearer the p/up, we put it as far as possible from the fret-board end. How far away from the bridge is the p/up you've fitted? Your description suggests it's quite a way off the bridge and that may even rob you of some upper fret-board.
String spacing should be what suits you best. Many lap steel guitars have wider spacing than (for instance) Fender 8string consoles and PSGs; it can make picking and slants easier. Yours may have to be spaced to match the pickup.

Here's a "seven" I made a while ago, the bridge is just below the front of the hand-rest and the middle of the p/up is about 2.5in from it. String spacing was dictated simply by the width of the wood I had for the neck !
PS - Keith and I are mates and we have quite a bit of experience in making (and playing) these things, usually made out of "available" materials, please feel free to PM if you think either of us can be of any help

[flester]

Would you believ i have not written down the measurements but heres a photo. I like the sound on lower frets but not so much higher up.
https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ahfhrrb-UXCag1vo5rAL2v8qWCvC

[Tony Russell Davis]

Good work there, good simple bridge, classy taper to the body, shaping and rout to the head.
I wonder, could you move the p/up down next to the bridge assembly and either fill or blank off any holes left behind?
The tone is changing on the higher notes because, as you move the bar up, the mid-point of the vibrating portion of the string gets closer to the p/up location (then further away again). If the p/up is next to the bridge this tone variation is minimal.

[WineRider]

Flester this is a very interesting thread. I didn't think about it when I made my three lap steels as all I did was work out where I would be picking and how to route the wiring, pots and out-put lead. But I did use without thinking (Tony and Keith) explanation about frequency of string to bar position. The killer is that all three lap steels have the pick-ups in slightly different distances from the bridge, and this came about by calculating the scale length (all three have different scale lengths). The two six string steels have humbuckers and I use on the first steel a bridge pup 6cm centre of bridge to centre of pup. On the other steel a neck pick-up is used which is 4.5cm centre to centre. On the 8 string I use a DiMarzio pup and the distance is 5.5cm from the bridge.
With my ears it isn't (to me) very noticable in difference from pup to pup, but the wood I made the steels from does give slightly different tone...the Elm one and short scale length sounds very mellow, where-as the two wild cherry ones have very similar tones although there is a difference in the scale lengths.

All this comes from 'just luck' but it seems to work.

Tony / Keith if Flester moved the pup and blanked of where his is now would the tone change because of the wood being cut and either blanked off or fillled in with an inserted piece of wood, would that alter either the resonance of the or change the whole dynamics of the steel?

WineRider (AKA Maurice)

[flester]

Ok my pickup is about 3.75" from bridge with 22.75" scale so its abot 16% of scale length. What would normal % be? I propose to just rout a hole for the 2nd pickup so dont expect much tone change there. Not sure what wood i have though i suspect some sort of teak.

In other words im seeking suggestions re how close to bridge should i place 2nd pickup

[nevada150]

OK, here are the distances from bridge centres to pickup centres on my 3 Lap Steels.

1) Rescued 1947 Gibson BR 3 the pickup is 45mm from the bridge on a 22.5" scale.
2) Homemade 6 String the pickup is 40mm from the bridge also with a 22.5" scale.
3) Homemade 8 string the pickup is also 40mm from the bridge with a 25" scale.

When I built the 8 string, I temporarily wired the pickup to a 1/4" jack plug, then fitted a few strings and tuned them up. Next I taped a couple of wooden strips to,the guitar giving a height about 3/16" above the strings. Then I plugged the pickup into my amp and moved the upside down pickup along the wooden strips until I got the best sound/tone. And as Tony can verify, it sounds pretty good.
On the Red 6 string, I removed the saddles from the Tele bridge and installed a piece of 12mm round S/S bar.
Keith.

Attachments

[rogerp1]

On my homemade lap steels the pickupsi are 1.5" from the bridge

[Basil Henriques]

The tone is changing on the higher notes because, as you move the bar up, the mid-point of the vibrating portion of the string gets closer to the p/up location (then further away again). If the p/up is next to the bridge this tone variation is minimal.

Also a second pickup is not (and has neverbeen) the way all the major manufacturers did it; and with their resources you would think that they should know. As near to the bridge as possible is the way because it reduces the difference between the transient and the sustained part of the note. IF the transient it too loud compared to the sustained and tail part of the note the ear locks on to the INITIAL volume, and the perception of the length of sustain is shortened. Less transient and more of the note and the guitars sits much better in the mix..UNLESS you are NOT looking for a clean sound and then as many pickups as you can squeeze in would be apropos to overdrive everything in sight..