How do you challenge this type of thinking?

[slimbo]

Country Club Statement.
(My six pennyworth in brackets. )
Unfortunately today these big bands are gone and sadly the Country Music bands that were around in the 70s, 80s and early 90s are fast disappearing. When I say bands I mean 6, 5 and 4 piece that gave their audience ‘LIVE’ music.
(IWONDER WHY)
With the introduction of the drum machine, mini-discs and more recently the mp3's and iPods more and more country artists are drifting away from bands (DRIFTING YOU CALL IT) and going out as solo's or duo's and using these artificial musical aids to get a full sounding band behind them. (I WONDER WHY) I am personally totally against this. To me it is fraudulent, What in actual fact I am saying is that when the --------first opened their doors our policy and in actual fact our slogan was that ‘The quality of the music is our first concern’ and this still applies today. As we run every ---------- we find that we are engaging some of the bands 3 times in a 12 month period, mainly because there are so few genuine ‘LIVE’ bands now in the UK. (I WONDER WHY) The ---------will avoid engaging any trio's that use mini-discs and we have never in our 31 years ever engaged a duo or solo artist, and we don't ever intend to do so.
(KALIBRE ARE A TRIO, AND USE BACKING TRACKS) ONE GIRL SINGER, ONE BOY SINGER AND A STEEL GUITAR, BUT I GUESS THAT’S OK WHEN IS SUITS IS IT?. ) When people come to the -------they can expect to listen and dance to music that is actually being played by the musicians on the stage. Karaoke is definitely a ‘NO GO’.(THAT’S WHAT YOU CALL IT)
(I can pick up the phone and in an hour get a 5 or 6 piece band of top notch musos together, but where are the clubs, and how do you expect us guy’s that do this for a living to survive with no gig’s, we need to survive as well, but we can’t survive on one gig a week, or month, so we down size and all you can do is turn your back on us, and forget we have been loyal to country music for the past 40 years or more, if Willy Nelson offered to play your club with just a guitar, would you turn him down and tell him, we don’t have solo’s.
You people that think like this do more harm to country music than help, and make many enemies along the way, and remember, What goes round comes round, and a time may come when you need a little help and it won’t be forthcoming.
I and my friend recently worked a club as a duo, and three of the tables came from your club, so it seem you are just feeding your own interests.
Country music needs all the help it can get, so lets hope not all country clubs think like you or the music will disappear completely).

[Will C]

Well said, Slim. How to challenge it? Wish I knew. I'd struggle to find a country music of any kind around here.

[Zumbilly(Murdoch)]

Great topic which has been heavily discussed on various forums.
In Scotland the "Country club scene" is awful.
Attendances have fallen steadily over the last couple of decades. I was a regular attendee at some of the clubs until the backing track users moved in. I have no problem going to a free entry pub where the entertainer uses tracks but why should I pay to see a solo/duo,some of whom cannot even hold a guitar let alone play one.
The main selling point in entertainment is the lead singer,a good voice will please the crowd and a good personality will go a long way so We get the guy who has a good voice and fronts a five piece band, then realises He can go out as a solo,duo trio and so on His bandmates are left at home while He works a lot more gigs that they do.
If we watch television today there are very few musicians seen on shows,all the younger boy and girlie bands are using tracks and the viewer has become used to it so when attending a club they are too busy line dancing to notice that they are listening to tracks.
I too cannot see a way to change this.

[Uncle Roy]

A very interesting and true thread.
Here in the Bristol area is also the same maybe even worse than some areas. You will very seldom find real performances.
But as stated the organisers cannot afford big bands now. So now it is mainly one vocal and a black box.
My advice is stay in doors and listen to a Cd. Save your money.

[Dave Nutt]

Now Now Boys, dont start this old fart off, topic has been discussed on so many forums over the years, prob is of course there is an aged group of steelies, muso's and fans (slowly depeleting) that remember the days of 'the country club' the days of totally live bands, days when the solo artist was purely a fill in between a couple of live bands, days when the band was the attraction, with the audience listening, not as now, (if they cant line dance to it, the band is crap) problem now is we have a generation that dont remember those days, and if we carp on about them we are dinosuars.

Of course we then have the westerners/cowboys, ok we have to accept a meeting of country music with a western image but!!!!! shootouts, lowering flags, women dressed as 'injuns' with plastic dolls in a papoos, knife throwing,lassooing, confederates? unionist? nights ending with the mandatory 'TRILOGY' (pass me the friggin bucket please) in my opinion these twonkers more than anything else has ruined the image of country music in the UK, after all who wants a night out listening to 'band in a box willie' a yorkshire window cleaner with an american accent all whilst dodging the bowie knives and the noise from the cap guns.,

Lads- Sadly the old days are gone times have changed and aint coming back. I wasnt even an A- league steelie yet I played fully pro for 23 years, tours sessions TV/radio the lot, doubt I could get 1 gig a month now (even if health allowed) last gig I was offered was to travel from South Wales to North Wales to gig a small festival, I won't name the outfit but pay was £40.00 and fish and chips afterwards it would have been a round trip of 270 miles plus time at the gig.
Like us all, my love for the instrument is still there and will never go away, I'm happy to pick away in my music room,and occasionally let my mind drift back to- 'the good old days'

[slimbo]

Well said Dave, but I know where most of the older generation of country fans have gone, they are in Silver Surfer homes where most of the work is, and no matter what song's you sing, someone always know's the artists, in fact we get request's
so you steelies get yourself a good solo singer who allready has tracks, then ask the council for a list of all the homes in your area, get some advertising made up then pay a few of them a visit, once you get your nose it, the word gets round and away you go.
They pay for their own entertainment so we don't get silly with the fee, just £100 a night, usualy 7.30. start finished by 9.30. indoors by 10.30 with £50 in the pocket, and the gig's keep your playing on top form, you can also try lots of new tricks on the steel, if you make a bo bo, no one notices, and you can try lots of new songs,it's seems the only way to go.
Been doing it for three years now, and it bring the work in, and they love you at the homes, they get fed up with some guy on the piano, and his wife singing, It's a Long Way To Kiss a Fairy.( Phew, don't I go on.)

[Malcolm]

What Zumbilly said!!Personally I would not cross the road to see some muppet singing to ( or on occasions miming) a backing track, don't care if they are a well known band or not.I am no great steel player but I am live, and can see no reasons for most of these talentless pratts puting hard working musos out of a job.One other reason for the demise of live bands is the reluctance of the punters to pay a reasonable price.They will fork out a small fortune to go to the cinema etc but moan at the small entrance fee for clubs.I can only say if these views offend you TOUGH T###Y.

[mick hearn]

Sorry guys but I'm afraid I have mixed views over this. I too can remember the days when I was gigging with a band 3 nights a week and the band was booked two years ahead. Made money and that paid for the gear (the wife wouldn't let me take it out of the housekeeping but that was fair). Then the club members started arguing over what was country music until eventually you had to make up your mind if you were a traditional country music player or modern. Then there was the arguments of the line dancers taking over the dance floor so that others couldn't dance holding one another. Work for the band started to decline over the years until I found myself in a duo. Ok, my partner played keyboard and used this to generate a full band whilst I doubled up on steel and guitar plus vocal. Eventually this folded and money that the clubs were paying was getting less and less.

OK we have all been there but what are you to do if you want to keep playing in public and can't afford to put another band together at a reasonable price. My answer was backing tracks. I would sit in my makeshift studio making them up from midi tracks and re-writing parts and putting in live instruments and additional harmonies. I was also moving across to 50's and 60's cos country music was dying. It kept me in work for another 10 years and the joy of playing live which we all love but I was forced to move in this direction. I would love to be in a band again but even now the recession has hit and work has died yet again - and just when I was getting interested in the steel again. But the clubs still won't pay.

Right - that's got that off my chest - now lets put the kettle on.

[Zumbilly(Murdoch)]

Too often I/We hear the phrase "Clubs cannot afford bands" !!!
It is not good manners to ask or tell what the fees are for different acts do We then assume that the ailing clubs can make ends meet by reducing their outlay by booking a Solo or Duo with a karaoke machine and a cardboard guitar at a fraction of the cost of a four or five piece band.
I recently spoke to a guy who plays in a duo with a female,He plays guitar and She does not, both of them sing.Their pay is more that what a four piece band receive
I have had online arguments with Solo and Duo people who purport to be lovers of the music and they say they would love to have a band!! but it is not economically viable.
I laid down a challenge to them by saying asking if they would go out(local) for £50 per head and no one answered..

[Shaun]

Sadly Guys, you are all spot on.
The biggest problem is the fans themselves, firstly they grumble at paying a reasonable price at the door. So if the organisers can't ask a reasonable price at the door, pure excomomics means they can't afford reasonable wages for a band. Also ask anyone who proffesses to be a Country fan when they last bought an Album !!. (and I don't mean from a second hand record store). British country fans want everything on the cheap or free. Sad but thats the way it is. Not sure there's anything we can do to change it.