The British Steelies Society

Posted: **Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:34 pm**

I do not need replace any at this time but being a "prepared" person I would like a couple of valves in My spares box.
What a confusing world.Or is it what a confused guy I am.
One of the valves I want is an ECC 802S which is also known as an ECC82. The one I have at present is a Mullard(made in Russia)
I found an ecc82 for £9,then I found others which went as high as £50 or more.I even found "used"valves.
Is there a difference in Quality or tone between the bottom and top price valves.?
When we look at 12AX7's there is a vast price difference.
Billy

Posted: **Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:20 pm**

Billy, the little I know about valves I will put here........

I strongly reccomend you get them from Watford valves you can find`em on the net they are a good eficient (wheres the spell checker??) Company. I just got 4 X6L6 for my new twin Reverb and they have given it Balls! They buy a load of them from Russia and they sort through them and what you get is a well matched set..... I have been told that as soon as you use them and they get hot they begin to lose their power... my amp was out putting about 75 watts and its now back up to 135.. you will get a good deal from W/V

jd

Posted: **Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:46 pm**

Thanks John,
I already contacted Watford and am awaiting their advice.
I am still confused as to the prefixes suffixes affixes and any other fixes they attatch to valve numbers so We will see what Watford come up with.
Billy

Posted: **Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:05 pm**

When I refurbished the '74 Fender Pro Reverb I was using, note that I said,was using ! I had a complete set of valves
from a company called Voc Rock Guitars in Nottingham, their service was second to none, fast delivery and quite
reasonable ( all 8 valves 79.24 + 8.00 P+P ). however when fitting the two power tubes in one of them popped.
Back on the phone to explain to Nic who promtly sent another pair over to me ( They have to be a matched pair )
at no cost what so ever ! not many around that'll do that !
As I said ,used to use, one of the big PA speakers fell on it in the van so now it's "broke", has to go to Athens for
repair so thats 50 euros before we start !
Oh, well !
All the best
Frank. Corfu

Posted: **Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:33 am**

Hi Billy
I would recomend JJ/Tesla, or Harma STR valves. They have a reputation and aren't too expensive. You can buy them directly from the web and buy them in matched pairs if needed. Buying from Watford valves can be expensive. Certainly check on the prices from Watford, but they are in it to make money and anyway mention JJ Tesla and Harma. Its worth doing a little research as each valve make functions slightly differently. Even better if you can find nos Mullard, Brimar or RCA.
Barry

Posted: **Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:12 pm**

Thanks barry,
I had already ordered two valves from Watford.They arrived this morning and I fitted them in the pre amp to test and I did notice a pleasant difference in tone.
I have another question on valves and rather than start a new topic I think it will be ok to add it here.
A couple of years ago I bought a stomp box called a valve purist pedal made by a guy in Devon,at the time I was using a Fender Blues Junior for Strat and the unit was'nt as good as I thought it might have been,it gradually descended into storage.Every now and again I tried it at home and never really got the desired "valve"tone I was looking for.It has a gain knob and a level knob.I never hear any change in tone unless I turn the gain knob up to about 90% and have the strat volume knob pretty well full on.It then produces a mild overdrive but not a great difference in harmonics.
The box has a 12AX7 valve and a circuit board.I have tried other AX7's and there is little(if any) difference in the final result.
I do seem to get an earlier break up when using it with pedal steel,probably the pickup impedance.
Can this unit be saved by using a different valve or is it better to scrap it.?
I had thought of offering it to the highest bidder here and after taking a fiver for postage I would donate the remainder to the forum.
Billy
By the way, I paid about £120 for it. :lol:

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:05 am**

Zumbilly, substituting a 12AT7 for the 12AX7 will give your valve pedal lower gain and higher headroom before break-up. It isn't really a specialist audio valve and it's actually best used as a phase splitter or tremolo oscillator, but a good one should work well and many players use them to clean up the front ends of old Fender amps. You might notice a slightly thinner sound but it's really suck it and see.

Posted: **Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:21 pm**

Thanks Rick,
It's not one of those things INEED to do since I rarely,if ever use this pedal.
Billy

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:58 am**

1947 was the year the 12AX7 first appeared, since then it's been VASTLY improved upon, I've always replace bog standard 12AX7 with a 5751, Siemens if I can find one, but any brand will be MUCH quieter and more long lasting.
The PHILIPS one is a superbly warm and rich sounding one and is a great valve to use in Fender Hot rod series of amplifiers as it tames the fuzzy more drive setting.It also works well in the front end of any amplifier if gain reduction and clarity are your aims. It has more midrange and less top end than The G.E 5751 which also makes it the ideal choice for blues and harmonica players.

The 5751 has a bit less gain than a 12AX7, (30% less) and a more linear tone, Smoother, with outstanding clarity and "chime." Overdrives in a different manner when compared to other tubes (not as harsh) Very cool.

Although I must say I prefer the sound of a 7025, it's Fabulous in Blackface Fender amps. It's been tried in a 66 Vibrolux reverb 2x10 combo and the tones were all there. "Light and shimmering or really aggressive, it's all good."

BTW the ECC83 (B339, B759, CV492, CV4004, CV8156, CV8222, ECC803, ECC803S, E2164, and M8137; and the lower-gain low-noise versions 5751 and 6851, intended for avionics equipment.)European designation is only a horse of a different colour but running in the same race, in this case 6.3 volt heater as opposed to the 12 series valves that are of course 12.6v. So you can see, NOT interchangeable easily.

My God isn't Wikipedia informative.. I HAVE paraphrased some of the info..as is my wont..

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:24 am**

I corresponded with Watford valves and they recommended two valves for My Brad Sarno "Tonic" pre amp.
I have owned this unit for about three years and whilst I was happy with the sound/tone I acheived I was curious as to whether I could improve ,I guessed that the vales were deteriorating but at what speed I do not know.
Anyway,the "Tonic" has two valves as I mentioned,the "black Box(Sarno again)circuity is incorporated within.I have guessed/assumed that the first valve (ECC 82) is for the impedance matching (black box) thingy.The other valve is the 12Ax7.
Watford supplied an ECC83-Retro Harma-Cryo for the 12AX7.
I installed them the other day and used the unit last night at the pub gig,the results were really pleasing.I do'nt say this lightly,I expected to hear a difference (new for old) but it was a marked improvement in anything I ever got before.
With regard to the other pedal I mentioned in a previous post,I still will not use it,so I will not be spending any money on it.
Thanks Basil for another informative reply.
Best regards from the good side of Hadrian's wall

Billy

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