***Untitled*** (Split from SESGF topic)

[Basil Henriques]

This is a great thread.
Basil is absolutely right in saying that the original version as written by the composer is the correct way to play any tune.
Keith.

If it wasn't so, then why is there/was there, published sheet music ?

[bobhcot]

Most folk/country/rock musicians can't/don't read sheet music. Whether that is right or wrong it is reality. That isn't just us amateurs, it applies to the majority. I have translated material from sheet music but it takes me hours. At my age those hours are running out. There are many ways to achieve an end. You have yours, others have theres.

Loosen up..........chill.........Enjoy..........

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

Baz, if that is the way it should be and through our due diligence we are tipping our hat's to genius, how does that sit with the internal combustion engine? If we had those original blue prints for the first ever one... is that the way we then have to build it? As what they make nowadays bears no resemblance to it but it works a lot better......

[Ken Byng]

Once upon a time the purchasing sheet music was way more important to a household than buying the recorded medium.

My late father was a superb keyboard player, piano, accordion and organ who started to play from the age of 5, but his knowledge of music theory was pretty limited. Because he had never been taught music, he was almost completely an ear player. But what an ear. He could hear a piece of music once and be able to play the chord structure immediately no matter how complex. He idolised Oscar Peterson, and could emulate him pretty well. It was just a gift, but for much of his life he bitterly regretted not being able to sight read music. He was always in demand as a musician and had an exceptionally large repertoire. Playing piano in restaurants and small clubs he would get lots of requests to play different numbers, but it was very rare that he would be caught out. Once, top trumpet player Kenny Baker was dining in one such eatery, and after he had eaten walked over to my father and complimented him on his playing. He was astonished when my father told him that he was a non reader, because what he was playing was completely musically correct.

I learned to read music at school in the early 60's via the recorder, and as my music teacher was classically trained it was mainly classical music that I learned to play at first. I learned to play 6 string guitar at the age of 8, and my father bought me Eric Kershaw's Dance Band Chords for the Guitar (42 pages), via the Clifford Essex Music Company. From there I progressed to other books, never using Bert Weedon's tome as I was quite sniffy about his ability as a guitarist. I was able to transfer what I knew from my music lessons on recorder to guitar. It did involve finding all of the notes on each string, learning scales, improvisation and correct right and left hand technique. To this day I still obtain sheet music to pieces that have fairly non standard chordal arrangements. Two of the members of a band that I regularly play in are readers as well as being brothers, and are sticklers for playing the correct chords and bass notes. They will sometimes argue about who is wrong or right, and sheet music will always have the last word on this.

I don't have a penchant for recreating songs or tunes to be note perfect to the original, but for me the chords should be correct and the melody should be instantly recognisable. I have always found Basil to be very listenable because his musicality is precise and correct, but still love to listen folks who are not always correct with their musical interpretations. Curly Chalker does come to mind - his use of occasional 'alternative' unusual chords immediately hit my ears, but I don't find them grating or offensive. Buddy Emmons was someone that I found to be always musically correct, as was Maurice Anderson. End of waffle.

[RonMc]

Reading your post Ken sent me searching for a teaching guide I bought years ago, for years I had played guitar and keyboard 'by ear', I started off in 'skiffle groups' (Donegan has a lot to answer for) and decided after many years that I should learn to play with sheet music and bought 'Play in a Day by Bert Weedon' 6 shillings it cost me and I still have it.
My compatriots of the time told me to stop wasting my time and play the way I felt it, which invariably made a different rendition each time we played, I never got round to finishing the tuition guide but I had a lot of fun playing as I felt it.
Anyway, I think most of the time the club audiences were too inebriated to notice and they just kept singing and dancing anyway.

Best Regards Ron Mc

[Dave Nutt]

It would be a boring old world if we all played the same arrangements,chords and melody lines, just think about it?
I can't sight read but could adlib with the best of them, the punters never noticed, the artists were happy (sometimes impressed even lol) and I made a decent living as a pro musician for many years.
Love ya Baz.
Dave.

[Paul Brennan]

When a musician is too lazy to learn the correct melody and chords of a tune then that's not acceptable to me.

The point has been made that beginners and people with lesser ability need to a chance to play in public and would never be able to do so if they were held to the same high standards as the seasoned professionals. That's a fair comment but there is a time and a place for such aspiring musicians.

Allow me to use the example of Irish traditional music where not playing the correct notes and rhythm is just not tolerated in a typical music session. For beginners there is a well established route of learning easier tunes and getting them right. There is a well graduated collection of tunes of increasing complexity until you get to the top of the game. This is done by ear mostly and sheet music is used as a reference and for documentation. If you try to begin with the most complex tunes you'll either give up in frustration or end up with a mangled version that nobody will recognise. You won't develop your ear very well and you'll acquire all sorts of bad habits.

A similar thing applies to the steel guitar where people often start by launching into attempting some masterpiece by Buddy Emmons. I'm as guilty of this as anybody else. It's just not going to work. You need to start with much simpler pieces and build up your technique and your ear. I know for myself taking a step back and working on basics helped enormously.

[Basil Henriques]

When a musician is too lazy to learn the correct melody and chords of a tune then that's not acceptable to me.

I'm glad that I'm not alone in that opinion. Unfortunately those guilty of such have standard stock "get out of jail free" phrases. "I play it like I feel it" is mostly untrue, the performances on the whole are NOT spontaneous but carefully/or not so carefully worked out beforehand. The problem is that I can see right through them and can instinctively know if it's genuinely "Not knowing' or if it's just, as is oft the case, not bothering. There is NO excuse for wrong chords or melody, when we all have the internet and a less than one second search will yield answers to almost everything, with the exception as to "why make excuses when the lack of diligence and caring is patently obvious."

I completely agree with the if we're playing for fun, anything goes, (BUT not in public, the listener MUST be respected.) it's by mistakes and accidents under those private conditions that we improve (Those of us who can recall all are lucky, but memory is also a matter of training, just like musicianship, musical prowess and dexterity)
Have you ever wondered how a concert pianist can play a complete concerto with no sheet music. One of the first things he learns is memory, pattern recognition and mathematics.
All good musicians have those capabilities..If you don't nurture those assets chances are you'll never get beyond a certain point with your music.
Probability theory is a good subject to study If you wish to be able to instantly recognise chord types and progressions.

[Will C]

Basil said:

If it wasn't so, then why is there/was there, published sheet music ?

I think the simple answer is "for guidance". This weekend I took my little uke group to do a spot at an outdoor celebration for a closed community for the elderly in St Ives. When we weren't playing, they had music from a chap with a keyboard. I marvelled at first at his grasp of the songs he was doing. Then I realised he didn't really know them as I thought he did: but he was an excellent sight-reader. He just played what he saw on the printed page.

I worry about the "absolutist" mentality displayed here, and the tendency to classify loss of focus for technical reasons or just plain stage fright as (in effect) idleness or stupidity. Come on chaps, we deserve some credit for having the chutzpah to put our necks on the block? Yes, of course we should strive to excel. But "show me the man who never made any mistakes, and I'll show you a man who never made a thing".

A little grace goes a long way.

[bobhcot]

Well said once again Will.

I take exception to being called lazy as I hope others on this site would. I might well lack ability and I certainly I started playing music far too late in life but I am not lazy. Let's have a bit more tolerance from those who seem to think they know the only way to achieve an end. Life isn't black and white, usually it is tones of grey.

SESGF was never meant to be a celebration of the very best. It was set up to give opportunities to those who wanted​ play publicly without getting heckled. It was fun to do but some of the reactions since are making me think again.

Lazy, damn cheek!