Whilst the HSGA site is down- Some nice Lap Steel downloads

[Arcada]

Basil, it was I who took the post in question down - I asked Bob about the copyright situation on it and moved it into "quarantine" for the time being until resolved.

See Copyright Protection and Expiration - When Do Copyrights Go Public Domain

Although the recent files I posted were for "Educational and Research" purposes, the post has mysteriously disappeared, nonetheless, it is only a continuation of THIS post on the American Steel Guitar Forum.

While for "Education and Research" purposes was your intention in posting them (and this wouldn't negate any copyright issues, anyway) this forum is visible to everyone, not just registered users. Even if it was OK to share complete recordings for "Educational and Research" purposes (which it isn't), anyone could have downloaded them regardless of their intentions.

With what little time I have left on "This Mortal Coil" I intend to broaden my knowledge and also share what I can, to this end I posted the now DELETED post. Note It wasn't deleted on the USA Forum..In fact, the moderator for the relevant section said:-

"Rhythm of the Waves" and "Waikiki is Good Enough For Me" are two comprehensive collections of pre-WWII Hawaiian guitar music originally compiled by Beer Records. Thanks a lot for sharing these, Basil!

Your post has not been deleted, simply "quarantined" until we can clear up the copyright position. As I'm sure you know, just because somewhere else was OK with it being posted doesn't make it legal.

I'm downloading the third one (mysteriously named "Basil Henriques.zip") to see what it might contain.

That one contained ALL existing recordings of myself..

For music recordings it is usually the composer who owns the copyright and / or the record company in the case of released material? Of course if you do own the copyright feel free to clarify this and re-post

The steel players on the Elvis tracks...

I'm almost certain NO Elvis recordings are in the public domain, Basil! I hope there were none in the links you posted!

Here is Rhythm of the Waves.zip
Download link: [removed]
Over 230 Classic 78's from the earliest up to the late 30's.

Up to the late 30's places the copyright on them at potentially not expriring until 2030 (if they were renewed). I don't want to go checking the copyright status of over 230 recordings from that long ago! According to the link I posted earlier, only those published before 1923 can be safely said to be in the public domain. I've removed the download link, If you'd like to go through them and include only those that you know for sure are in the public domain, feel free to post it again.

I hope you realise that as the publishers of this forum it is I and Bob who are in the firing line for any legal action, not yourself. Some forums have disclaimers saying that posters are responsible for the content of posts, not the forum owners. There is no such disclaimer here (it was decided earlier not to publish a set of "rules") and anyway, their effectiveness in a legal situation is unknown...

Your use of this "pirate" lady graphic in both posts did not go unnoticed

[telboy]

glad i copied em when i did then

[Basil Henriques]

Not wishing to open a can of worms - If you apply the criteria you've just outlined, then you may also delete ALL links to Youtube performance, Tablature and any other material that seems questionable..

Other forums are comfortable with the normal modus operandi, AND having sold more than 3 million records myself and having a close working relationship with EMI records since 1967 and also Paddy McGuire at EMI publishing, handling copyright issues as an record producer and musical arranger, my experience in this subject goes back almost 45 years. I would consider you're reacting hastily AND without KNOWLEDGEABLE professional advice.

As I said, If you apply this to my posted links then you MUST also by the same standards, delete all YouTube links, (As the contain copyrighted songs) Audio performances (Again the same) and Tablature as that contains copyright lyrics and melodies.

Furthermore, I had EVERY right to give away the complete collection of my own albums.

I'm disappointed that you've acted initially without firstly discussing it with myself.

The "pirate" graphic was a light-hearted innuendo.

Sadly with only a few years left, I have to pass on my knowledge and experience, If it's not accepted her I'll (reluctantly I may add) have to go to forums who are more in line with the accepted norm and are more "up to Speed"on the issues of copyright.

Consider this my last post on this issue and also this forum.
My wishes are that you delete the thread if you don't want "the rest of the world to see it" Personally I'd prefer it stays as a monument to the "out of order" mindset here.

I have the complete thread saved for publication elsewhere, when and if needed.


BTW that link for copyright dis-information is to an American site and completely out of date, not applicable to Europe and especially the internet.
If you want to learn about copyright (And it's patently obvious you do) then go to MCPS/PRS Alliance HERE of which as a music publisher, performer and writer I am a member.

[Admin]

Basil, Thank you for your correspondence regarding the original post, much appreciated as is your unsurpassed knowledge and enthusiasm for your craft and indeed your generosity of spirit in the endeavour to share such a wealth of ‘otherwise inaccessible material’ A thought may be to create a login window or link tab on your site to facilitate those wishing to ‘uphold the traditions’ and glean all the information they can from one held in the highest esteem in the Genre.

http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/index.html

Please be assured that whilst you have our very best wishes on this project and not least on your health, Admin here is merely exercising its ‘Duty of Care’ to the BSS Forum…

Kind regards from us all!

[Basil Henriques]

Just to clarify, I am a member of the above and have since 2001 been paying £200 per year for the dual licence to post music/video content, on my site or my links. Albeit limited to 5,000 downloads and 45,000 streams, Per Annum.
Details of the licence arrangements are available here:- http://www.prsformusic.com/Pages/default.aspx

I really should have been contacted before the material I posted was deleted.

[Arcada]

Consider this my last post on this issue and also this forum.
My wishes are that you delete the thread if you don't want "the rest of the world to see it" Personally I'd prefer it stays as a monument to the "out of order" mindset here.

I for one am sorry you feel that way, Basil. As you wish this thread will remain, if nothing else as a warning to others that posting links to copyrighted material is unacceptable.

BTW that link for copyright dis-information is to an American site and completely out of date, not applicable to Europe and especially the internet.
If you want to learn about copyright (And it's patently obvious you do) then go to MCPS/PRS Alliance HERE of which as a music publisher, performer and writer I am a member

You are incorrect, international copyright law (and the link I posted) falls under various International Copyright agreements and is applicable to all Contracting States. It is for this reason that American companies managed to take "The Pirate Bay" (a Swedish website) to court. On the subject of "The Pirate Bay", the issue there was in providing links to copyrighted content hosted elsewhere - exactly what you did in the thread in question.

Interestingly, following your link lead me to PRS for Music and YouTube Sign a New Licensing Deal, which discusses the PRS / YouTube issues. It is for this reason that YouTube links posted here remain. YouTube have come to an agreement with copyright / license owners and allow copyrighted material to be published. The YouTube policy is to remove offending copyrighted material as soon as they are made aware of it. That is the best that online publishers (such as YouTube, and this forum) can do - remove content when they have been made aware of, or suspect, a copyright infringement. I made a judgement call based on the sheer amount of material you were linking to and temporarily removed the thread, and it would have been put back had you proven that you had the right to distribute the material in this manner.

I also make the assumption that when any audio / tab etc. is posted that the poster has the right to do so. That's all I can do, I cannot listen to or read everything and then go and check on the copyright status of it. What I can do is take any offending material down as soon as the copyright holder brings it to my attention.

As I said, in this case I made a judgement call based on the amount of material posted, and would have been quite happy to have been proven wrong and put the thread back. All I asked was for clarification on the copyright status of the material you linked to.

Other forums are comfortable with the normal modus operandi, AND having sold more than 3 million records myself and having a close working relationship with EMI records since 1967 and also Paddy McGuire at EMI publishing, handling copyright issues as an record producer and musical arranger, my experience in this subject goes back almost 45 years. I would consider you're reacting hastily AND without KNOWLEDGEABLE professional advice.

Just because other forums find it acceptable, doesn't mean it is. I am merely acting in my own interests as the legal publisher of these forums (along with Bob / BSS). I don't doubt your knowledge on the subject matter, nor your experience in the music industry or who you know at EMI records, but with all due respect that is irrelevant when it comes to the issue of copyright.

Furthermore, I had EVERY right to give away the complete collection of my own albums.

That you do. Package up all the (physical) records and give them to whoever you like! What you cannot do is give away digital copies to multiple recipients. Just because you own them, or in some cases feature on them, does not change this fact.

I'm disappointed that you've acted initially without firstly discussing it with myself.

As I said, the thread was not deleted, and can be easily re-instated if you provide the information / assurance requested.

The "pirate" graphic was a light-hearted innuendo.

Yet appropriate

Sadly with only a few years left, I have to pass on my knowledge and experience, If it's not accepted here I'll (reluctantly I may add) have to go to forums who are more in line with the accepted norm and are more "up to Speed"on the issues of copyright.

You say "up to speed", I say "ignorant". I'm erring on the side of caution and (as I keep saying) will gladly do a u-turn if you can show you are entitled to distribute all the material you linked to.

[Arcada]

Just to clarify, I am a member of the above and have since 2001 been paying £200 per year for the dual licence to post music/video content, on my site or my links. Albeit limited to 5,000 downloads and 45,000 streams, Per Annum.

Can you please let me have your licence number or details, along with a full list (artists / titles etc.) of the material you linked to in the thread in question. I'll then personally run it by PRS for their assurance. You can do this via PM or here if you prefer.

I really should have been contacted before the material I posted was deleted.

Basil, as I keep saying, your post has not been deleted and will be reinstated once I am satisified that you are indeed allowed to distribute the content linked to. You were contacted and, to be frank, the answers / arguments you gave (by email to Bob and in your responses on the forum) were not to my satisfaction. Only now have you mentioned the PRS licence you have!

[Basil Henriques]

At 67 years of age and dying of OCPD I don't feel the need anymore to continue justifying myself, only to say Apply to the other Video/Audio/Tablature posts the same criteria, as MOST of them ARE in breach.
I don't need a track by track permission, it's an en bloc situation as you'll see if you read the info I've provided.
As for me I'm not participating here anymore.

I suppose what's really needed is the BSS Site admin to take out a licence to cover themselves for content that isn't licensed
Here:-
If they haven't done so, then here is where:-
http://www.prsformusic.com/users/broadc ... loads.aspx

and Here:-
http://www.prsformusic.com/users/broadc ... music.aspx

I already pay £200.06 for the privilege of posting audio and video links, so anything I post is already covered.
BUT most of the other YouTube content here and also the audio and tablature links will require SOMEONE to pay..

Here is a breakdown of what the costs are for permission to post music/video LINKS
Limited download/on demand streaming service
(per annum costs)
Users can stream specific tracks on an on demand basis, or access limited (aka ‘tethered’) downloads of tracks on demand£112 (+VAT)
<45,000 streams*

The Performing Right Online Licence is needed when you want to use music online and have already cleared the mechanical rights (i.e the right to copy/ reproduce the track) separately. Examples include:

* When music is approved directly by the owner/publisher
* Where a Production Music licence has already been obtained
For audio only services or audio-visual services where music is the primary focus of the content)

Allowed uses per £55 (+VAT)
On demand streams Up to 45,000 streams
Background to a website (akin to webcasting) Up to 120,000 streams
Permanent downloads Up to 5,000 downloads

Of course the MCPS/PRS licence is also required for persons to SELL CD's and Videos..

[Arcada]

At 67 years of age and dying of OCPD I don't feel the need anymore to continue justifying myself, only to say Apply to the other Video/Audio/Tablature posts the same criteria, as MOST of them ARE in breach.
I don't need a track by track permission, it's an en bloc situation as you'll see if you read the info I've provided.
As for me I'm not participating here anymore.

If you're not willing to provide the information requested, there's not much I can do I'm afraid. I'm not even sure your PRS license would cover links posted on this site (or other forums) - your own site, maybe? It's something I'd have to look into once (if) we establish your licence terms.

I suppose what's really needed is the BSS Site admin to take out a licence to cover themselves for content that isn't licensed
Here:-
If they haven't done so, then here is where:-
http://www.prsformusic.com/users/broadc ... loads.aspx

and Here:-
http://www.prsformusic.com/users/broadc ... music.aspx

I already pay £200.06 for the privilege of posting audio and video links, so anything I post is already covered.
BUT most of the other YouTube content here and also the audio and tablature links will require SOMEONE to pay.

I've already stated I'll take-down any non YouTube (as they have their own agreement with the PRS) copyrighted material as soon as I'm made aware of it by the copyright owner, and have also made it clear that posting copyrighted material (or links to it) is not acceptable, so no license is required.

[Basil Henriques]

I've already stated I'll take-down any non YouTube (as they have their own agreement with the PRS)

That agreement was PURELY with "Premuim Music Videos" from the USA site..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7933565.stm

Other than that the only agreement is YouTube pays a licence to the PRS which covers the streaming of music videos from three of the four major music labels and many independent labels..WHO ARE ALREADY paying licence fees..

With respect, your are completely wrong about Youtube,
they say it's the poster's responsibility to OBTAIN copyright permission and THEY (YouTube) by default presume it:- saying:_ "It's possible that you may be permitted to include small excerpts from copyrighted material in your video if what you intend to use is insubstantial or is incidentally included, or where the intended use you have for the copyrighted material falls within a exception or limitation to copyright under the law in your country.
We can't give you advice on either of these topics, and if you do plan to use even a small portion of copyright material in your video we'd strongly advise you to take legal advice first."
http://www.google.com/support/youtube/b ... 3&hl=en-US

YouTube's own words...

Since all content on YouTube is posted by our users, we make it clear in our terms of use and at the time of upload that they must own the copyright to the videos they post or have permission from the copyright holder. We encourage copyright holders to report any specific infringing videos via the these instructions. User accounts of repeat infringers are automatically terminated

Diligence please..