Memberships and Freeloaders.

[WineRider]

I have just had a scroll through the 1142 members and to be honest I'm disgusted by the number of members who have posted two or less times. They may be classed as "Members' but their contributions are zero. I have been confrontational in the past and quite possibly in the future. I sometimes fire from the hip and don't always think before either speaking or writing, but I always take criticism. Not always graciously, but usually accept my failings. So to all you out there that contribute nothing to the discussions of Lap or Pedal Steels or even musical questions...GET OFF YOUR FAT ARSE'S AND CONTRIBUTE.
None of us are above learning...I have learned a lot from my time in the BSS and have in my 'ever so humble' way asked and got answers. If you who do not contribute are so clever and know all the answers why did you register in the first place????

[hickenjr]

I have just had a scroll through the 1142 members and to be honest I'm disgusted by the number of members who have posted two or less times. They may be classed as "Members' but their contributions are zero. I have been confrontational in the past and quite possibly in the future. I sometimes fire from the hip and don't always think before either speaking or writing, but I always take criticism. Not always graciously, but usually accept my failings. So to all you out there that contribute nothing to the discussions of Lap or Pedal Steels or even musical questions...GET OFF YOUR FAT ARSE'S AND CONTRIBUTE.
None of us are above learning...I have learned a lot from my time in the BSS and have in my 'ever so humble' way asked and got answers. If you who do not contribute are so clever and know all the answers why did you register in the first place????

I've got to be honest, I don't think many of those 1000 members are actually real people. I'd say a lot of them are bots/field fillers and the real number of proper members is closer to 200.
If the actual number was 1000 I'd see a lot more pedal steels when gigging and going to the pub for a beer. 2 pedal steels on the supporting stages of C2C last year over the entire weekend and it isn't like we aren't wanted...a lot of young British country bands are desperate for steel. Some of them are even taking it upon themselves to learn themselves. Shout out to CJ Hillman, the absolute babe, for chilling with me last year after our sets at C2C.

It was like when the donations came round the other year and only 10 people had contributed and somebody said "out of 1000 people only 10 have donated". I had the same thought then and still have the same thought now.
Then obviously you get confused musicians who don't play steel and just come here to promote their "sick riffs" on guitar and promote their exotic scale lessons because they don't realise steel guitar is different from guitar.

I'm seeing a lot more youth getting into the instrument on this forum and Instagram which is encouraging and I hope you older guys are staying safe during these times...
...well, by safe I really mean blasting the neighbours out with Peavey Session 400 and Fender Twin

[Danny Mitchell]

Interesting posts gentlemen.
Maurice, you can always be relied upon to give the pot a good stir, and the occasional top wine tip, keep 'em coming.
I'm with you on this one, but I think that some inexperienced players/ members, might feel they don't have anything worthwhile to contribute and are happy just to pick up any pearls of wisdom that might come up for discussion. That was certainly the case for me, and now I reckon I could be rightly accused of almost 'blocking the toilet' with my excessive effluence.

Steven, surely it's got to be more than 200 bona fide members. I reckon there'll be a fair amount of 'lurking' going on, after all they can't touch you for it.
And, I agree with your impression that there's an increase in younger interest in this, the most demanding of all instruments, but it's never going to be mainstream, too expensive and too much of a learning curve. I think it'll always be maintained by just a select, dedicated, few, like the Shaolin Monks, the Knights Templar or the Illuminati.

[hickenjr]

Interesting posts gentlemen.
Maurice, you can always be relied upon to give the pot a good stir, and the occasional top wine tip, keep 'em coming.
I'm with you on this one, but I think that some inexperienced players/ members, might feel they don't have anything worthwhile to contribute and are happy just to pick up any pearls of wisdom that might come up for discussion. That was certainly the case for me, and now I reckon I could be rightly accused of almost 'blocking the toilet' with my excessive effluence.

Steven, surely it's got to be more than 200 bona fide members. I reckon there'll be a fair amount of 'lurking' going on, after all they can't touch you for it.
And, I agree with your impression that there's an increase in younger interest in this, the most demanding of all instruments, but it's never going to be mainstream, too expensive and too much of a learning curve. I think it'll always be maintained by just a select, dedicated, few, like the Shaolin Monks, the Knights Templar or the Illuminati.

You're probably right on more than 200, maybe more like 4-500 or so. I still believe a lot aren't genuine though as there are a lot of new daily members with questionable names that don't even make 1 post. You've got to remember though, a lot of the genuine members that haven't posted recently date back to the forum's rebirth and I'm sure a fair few members will have sold up by then. There used to be a guy here who I won't name, he got sarcky with my 16 year old former self because I asked which Leeds he was in when he was selling a butchered MCI (I still played a Carter Starter back then), he eventually sold his steel to somebody in Scotland and he has never been seen again...dodged a bullet with that one as I'm sure one of the senior figures here had to rebuild it for the buyer. I'm sure there are a fair few of them. People bought an instrument, joined got bored/couldn't learn and then sold up and disappeared.

As for the steel and youth, it has real potential but music stores over here won't stock them which really winds me up. There are plenty of good cheap economy steels on the market, Hudson are making 6 stringers for the same price of a decent mid range acoustic guitar, but instead they decided to stock other expensive niche instruments like Chinese Zithers and 10 grand Violins. I walked into Hobgoblin a few months ago and the shop assistant didn't know what a pedal steel was...but these guys are educated to know about every unusual Mongolian instrument. More acoustic music is coming back and that's where steel really thrives. I recently played on a laid back tune for a friend of mine's band...these guys usually play punk and they loved my traditional steel. There is also a young player in South Korea playing a pedal steel on national TV talent shows backing up acoustic "country-ish" singers. He isn't the best technically (yet) but with the amount of feel he has, it purely doesn't matter. He has ALOT of heart and if South Korea get in on the trend and pedal steel ends up in acoustic KPOP, we're all rich. The London group of lads in their 30s are doing a really good job on the Americana circuit, whilst experimenting with things like ambient music, and are making a good living whilst getting new faces into the instrument. And right now I'm having some British 20 year olds join the force who are very promising. They've motivated me to improve my chops. Brad, if you're reading this which I know you will be, please don't feel the need to upgrade from that Sho-Bud, it sounds ace. Save you're money. You're playing a blinder.

[Stoney]

As a relatively new player (albeit retirement age) I agree with Danny that I dont really feel I have the right to contribute much worthwhile at the moment, however I have posted a number of times with some questions and really appreciate the answers from the more experienced of you. i did contribute to the monetary request as I believe this forum is of unique value to those of us who are just beginning to feel the pleasure and frustration of this magnificent instrument.

Paul

[Billy White]

I can't be the only one reading this and looking at the for sale section!

I'm not talking about steel players but i think there are people who just see this forum as as a free ebay.

[WineRider]

Guy's I'm impressed with all your comments, some of which I totally agree with. I didn't realize just how bad this subject had got...i.e: the non people etc. I don't know quite how to police it but when I join other forums, or even try to buy stuff online, I have to post an e-mail address and have to activate 'my account'.
Admin is this feasible???

Another point that has been raised is the sellers who join just to 'flog off' something that is possibly dodgy or even very dodgy. There are enough of us on the site to know most of the true pickers who are selling gear, has anyone got an idea how to flush out those who aren't Kosher? There could be one way...e-mail all those who we suspect of being non-people and if they don't like the intrusion they would I suspect clear off pretty quick. Mind you if you can't get rid of Bentley Guitars then what chance do we have in cleaning out all the dead wood here.

One thought springs to mind; When we offer gear for sale, could there be an up front fee? of say 10% or more of the asking price, at least it would put a brake on some of the more unscrupulous among us. Just a thought.

[Arcada]

I've got to be honest, I don't think many of those 1000 members are actually real people. I'd say a lot of them are bots/field fillers and the real number of proper members is closer to 200.

Steven, surely it's got to be more than 200 bona fide members.

You're probably right on more than 200, maybe more like 4-500 or so.

As of right now, with all bots / spammers removed, the number of "proper" members is 995 (I have my doubts about cooldrich!).

I didn't realize just how bad this subject had got...i.e: the non people etc. I don't know quite how to police it but when I join other forums, or even try to buy stuff online, I have to post an e-mail address and have to activate 'my account'.
Admin is this feasible???

This is already the case. Upon creating an account, it is not active until a link is clicked in an email that is sent to the registration address. Unfortunately free email accounts (e.g. gmail, yahoo etc) are very easily created and spammers / bots use these to get around the valid email requirement.

There are also other anti-spam measures. Signups need to pass the ReCAPTCHA check (see here), and if they pass that, use an active email and actually make a post - all first posts are manually moderated to make sure that absolutely no spam posts get through to the public boards. Spammers at this point are banned by IP, username and email and their account deleted. There are probably on average 2 or 3 of these posts per day.

Sometimes spammers will signup with no intention of posting but to have links in their member's profile visible, to drive traffic to their own spam site or boost their SEO. For this reason, the members list is regularly pruned of members who have signed up but made 0 posts. See Memberlist Pruning. I've just done this again today, removing another 147 "non-members".

Another point that has been raised is the sellers who join just to 'flog off' something that is possibly dodgy or even very dodgy. There are enough of us on the site to know most of the true pickers who are selling gear, has anyone got an idea how to flush out those who aren't Kosher? There could be one way...e-mail all those who we suspect of being non-people and if they don't like the intrusion they would I suspect clear off pretty quick. Mind you if you can't get rid of Bentley Guitars then what chance do we have in cleaning out all the dead wood here.

I do try to post a warning if a user's first post is an item for sale. For example here: Carter D10 8x5 For Sale NOW SOLD. Not being part of the "steelie" community that's all I can do. Others have posted warnings if a deal seems to good to be true, or smell a scam.

One thought springs to mind; When we offer gear for sale, could there be an up front fee? of say 10% or more of the asking price, at least it would put a brake on some of the more unscrupulous among us. Just a thought.

Donations are always voluntary. Sometimes I'll point out to new sellers what they would have paid via eBay for the items sold through the forum, and suggest a donation - like this from (here): -

Jonathan - if it sold through the forum, please consider donating towards the forum running costs if you haven't already done so.

On the asking price here, a combination of eBay / Paypal fees would be roughly £240 . There's never been a charge for advertising sales through the forum, but any donations from successful sales are always appreciated.

Or another option, from my post here :-

On other forums I moderate, there are "supporters only" sections where supporters (who pay £1 per month via PayPal) have their own place to post things away from the public (and Google's) eye - stuff that's a bit more "risqué", or reports on bad client experiences etc...think somewhere to go and share an experience you've had with a venue / band that you don't want to post publicly.

Another one limits the ability to sell items without an active supporter's subscription.

[hickenjr]

I've got to be honest, I don't think many of those 1000 members are actually real people. I'd say a lot of them are bots/field fillers and the real number of proper members is closer to 200.

Steven, surely it's got to be more than 200 bona fide members.

You're probably right on more than 200, maybe more like 4-500 or so.

As of right now, with all bots / spammers removed, the number of "proper" members is 995 (I have my doubts about cooldrich!).

I didn't realize just how bad this subject had got...i.e: the non people etc. I don't know quite how to police it but when I join other forums, or even try to buy stuff online, I have to post an e-mail address and have to activate 'my account'.
Admin is this feasible???

This is already the case. Upon creating an account, it is not active until a link is clicked in an email that is sent to the registration address. Unfortunately free email accounts (e.g. gmail, yahoo etc) are very easily created and spammers / bots use these to get around the valid email requirement.

There are also other anti-spam measures. Signups need to pass the ReCAPTCHA check (see here), and if they pass that, use an active email and actually make a post - all first posts are manually moderated to make sure that absolutely no spam posts get through to the public boards. Spammers at this point are banned by IP, username and email and their account deleted. There are probably on average 2 or 3 of these posts per day.

Sometimes spammers will signup with no intention of posting but to have links in their member's profile visible, to drive traffic to their own spam site or boost their SEO. For this reason, the members list is regularly pruned of members who have signed up but made 0 posts. See Memberlist Pruning. I've just done this again today, removing another 147 "non-members".

Another point that has been raised is the sellers who join just to 'flog off' something that is possibly dodgy or even very dodgy. There are enough of us on the site to know most of the true pickers who are selling gear, has anyone got an idea how to flush out those who aren't Kosher? There could be one way...e-mail all those who we suspect of being non-people and if they don't like the intrusion they would I suspect clear off pretty quick. Mind you if you can't get rid of Bentley Guitars then what chance do we have in cleaning out all the dead wood here.

I do try to post a warning if a user's first post is an item for sale. For example here: Carter D10 8x5 For Sale NOW SOLD. Not being part of the "steelie" community that's all I can do. Others have posted warnings if a deal seems to good to be true, or smell a scam.

One thought springs to mind; When we offer gear for sale, could there be an up front fee? of say 10% or more of the asking price, at least it would put a brake on some of the more unscrupulous among us. Just a thought.

Donations are always voluntary. Sometimes I'll point out to new sellers what they would have paid via eBay for the items sold through the forum, and suggest a donation - like this from (here): -

Jonathan - if it sold through the forum, please consider donating towards the forum running costs if you haven't already done so.

On the asking price here, a combination of eBay / Paypal fees would be roughly £240 . There's never been a charge for advertising sales through the forum, but any donations from successful sales are always appreciated.

Or another option, from my post here :-

On other forums I moderate, there are "supporters only" sections where supporters (who pay £1 per month via PayPal) have their own place to post things away from the public (and Google's) eye - stuff that's a bit more "risqué", or reports on bad client experiences etc...think somewhere to go and share an experience you've had with a venue / band that you don't want to post publicly.

Another one limits the ability to sell items without an active supporter's subscription.

We appreciate you're hard work Mark

[Danny Mitchell]

Marc, you're moderation, attention to detail and vigilance is much appreciated. Thank you very much