Lower cost Telonics Combo

[Mark]

Malcolm - When I spoke to Dave he told be they'd just made a few heads and 12" cabs for the Phoenix show and plan to have them in Dallas. The feedback from potential customers on the Forums, at the shows and general enquirers will help determine whether or not they make it to the general price list. With regards to prices, the 12" version will be about the same price as the regular combo... the difference in material / production costs is negligible. I think Dave said the head would work out about £70 less.
Mark

[Malcolm]

Thanks Mark, with all due respect to Dave , that does not make a lot of sense to me, why would I buy a head stand alone when I could get a complete combo for £70 more, the speaker it'self is around £200?, sorry but I just don't follow his reasoning on that.I had hoped these would be significantly cheaper but alas it would seem they would be in same ball park price range, so still in the unaffordable bracket as far as I am concerned, and I think most of the players in UK.Undoubtedly great sounding quality amps and I wish you and Dave every success with them,but sorry way too pricey for me.

[Mark]

Malcolm - The reasoning is simple... Firstly, the TCA-500 chassis is the same in all three amps, so that's a fixed cost. To make a case a computer controlled machine has to be set up to cut out and form all the parts, this is a again a fixed cost. The standard 15" Combo is the format that most players would buy, so lets just say they make these cases in batches of 50 off, so the setup cost to cut out the wood is spread across 50 units. At this stage Dave has to put his finger in the air and make a guess how many Heads he might sell, so lets just say he decides to build the heads in batches 20, so the fixed set up cost gets spread across 20 units. Taking into account the fixed chassis cost, fixed machining cost, material cost and labour costs he arrives at a price. The bottom line is the Head differential cost is mainly down to volume... and of course he has to guess potential sales. Just designing and putting the production systems in place to make a different case is a lot of work.

At this point we get back to the question raised at the beginning of this post, if it's too pricey what features would you consider non-essential? It's like cars, the top of the range model, higher price... cut the spec to reduce production costs. But, at this point I should say, cutting the spec must produce real savings and the finished product must still appeal to a significant amount of players - that's the hard bit!

Mark

[Zumbilly(Murdoch)]

I really think it is an impossible question to answer.
We all know that Dave Beaty and His team strive for perfection in the products they build.I know that it is not a situation where Telonics are making massive profits on every unit sold. I cannot see that by removing a certain few features a significant reduction in cost would be the result.
The comparison between top of the range vehicles is a bit unfair,A very comfortable,reliable car with many "extras" is available for C£20-25K,Another car is available for £80K.Both cars are mechanically excellent.
I am quite sure that Telonics never did expect to have high volume sales,for a moment let's assume they do want a "mover" They could go to China and source inferior quality components and use cheap speakers etc.,maybe throw in a few digital effects and get something that sounds nothing like a Telonics amp but the price will be right,would You buy it?
What is the price for a "good" amp anyway? Have a look at the cost of the other Higher priced amps from the U.S. and then the cost of landing them in the U.K. the cost of the Telonics is not excessive.

[Les Wright]

Mark, wouldn't it make more sense to put out the head unit in a rack mount format like the preamp and power amp? There are plenty of rack cases already on the market at various prices.

Les

[Ken Byng]

Mark, wouldn't it make more sense to put out the head unit in a rack mount format like the preamp and power amp? There are plenty of rack cases already on the market at various prices.

Les

Good suggestion.

You know everyone, we just have to accept that low run boutique steel guitar amps are always going to be expensive. I have 9 Peavey amps in my garage. All are exceptional value for money, and have been really reliable. However, my Webb and Telonics amps are both in a different class in terms of sound and build quality. I spent over 30 years playing through a Nashville 400, 1 year through a Session 500 which was a real dog, and 1 day through a Nashville 112 - hated the sound of the thing. If I added up all of the expenditure for those Peaveys, I could have bought a Webb and been a really happy camper from day one. You get what you pay for in life, and I can say that if anyone is sitting on the fence wondering whether or not to lay out on a Telonics combo, I would say go for it. It will improve both your tone and playing. It will also raise your enthusiasm level for playing steel guitar. It certainly has with me.

[Malcolm]

Sorry,good as it is, I still think it is way too pricey for most of the players in UK.Car argument---I want a new Range Rover, can I afford it NO, do I put myself in huge debt to get it NO, what is solution ---I buy a vauxhall that I can afford, does same job, gets me fro A to B in reasonable comfort.As I look at the posts on forum I see a bunch of members struggling to even get a Half decent guitar never mind fancy electronics of any kind.When I played full time I could not really afford top of range gear, my wages went to pay mortgage etc, the semi pro guys turned up at gigs with gear I drooled over, but they had day jobs plus the earnings of band to finance their gear, it took me many years to build up to the quality of gear I now have, watching for bargains, building own speaker cabs etc, so moral is You have to live within your means!!!
If I was to buy a Telonics or any other boutique amp I would have to sell my guitar to finance it,and hopefully pick up a cheap old steel, so I would not wish to do that as it would be rather stupid thing to do after the blood sweat and tears and years of work to get it in first place.
I do disagree with Ken saying that owning one will make you play better, only practice and experience will do that, it will give you a better tone but will not make you play better.
If you are in the fortunate position of having the cash to get one - do it, as I keep saying ,it is a fantastic amp, and I have never doubted the quality of them and the superb customer service supplied by Dave and Mark.
Being on a limited income now, there is just no way I could come anywhere near buying one, as usual the good old British Goverment have so much tax on things that, together with shipping costs, makes these products almost double what they cost in US, ( no fault of the manufacturers), which is one of reasons I was interested in US prices to see if I could pick it up there and bring it back as baggage.
Les --good thought on rack mount. Mark-- as I previously said on Pre 1000, get rid of toys - do we really need a bro sim? all effects go, single channel, mono output, would be my thoughts on. " basic " model.Is there any way a pre 200 can sound anything like a Pre1000 as this could be a low cost option for those on limited budget?

[Zumbilly(Murdoch)]

Owning one will make You a better player.
Malcolm, I agree with Ken's statement.I am a recognised gear freak and had a good enough day job which allowed Me to buy and try a fair amount of equipment.There is no substitute for good technique and lots of practise,however I have found that when I have introduced a new(quality) piece of equipment to My arsenal the difference in tone/sound has had the effect of making Me sound good which gave Me greater enthusiasm to play and loosely made Me a better player.
I have always laughed at the phrase "tone is in the hands" Yes it is very true but why do so many world class players use high cost equipment.Tone is in every piece of the set up from strings to speaker.Telonics do not make strings(yet) but almost every other piece of gear to get You to the final sound is there.I recall a conversation I had with Dave Beaty some years ago when He said that His aim was to provide all the hardware necessary to get from the guitar to Your ear.
Billy.

[Ken Byng]

I can't disagree with much of what you say Malcolm. I still believe that getting a great sound with guitar and amp can be inspiring to your playing. However, (as I know only too well) buying gear in one's later years does need careful and calculated consideration. I have had to weigh up the implications of buying musical equipment in recent years, when my health has deteriorated, but I still can't resist the lure of a great 6-string, pedal steel and amp. The big problem is finding space for all of the 'stuff'. I think Malcolm's comment of living within your means is important. If I haven't go the cash available to buy something, then I won't do it. Period.

For younger players, they are spoilt for choice. There are so many s/h steels, amps, and effects units available today. When I started, there was the choice of a new ZB, new ZB or a new ZB. The only way of getting a second hand steel was to blag one from a touring US musician. The Fender Twin was the amp of choice, and that amp still stands up today in terms of tone. But I paid the equivalent of a quarter of a terraced house in Wales when I bought my first ZB D10 and Fender Twin w/ JBL's. I had to take out a bank loan to buy them, and the interest was painful. Have things changed? YES!! People's disposable income has increased since those days, and in comparison it is less painful to buy top end stuff these days than it was then.

If the Telonics combo was available in 1972, I would still have found a way to buy one somehow.

[Zebedee]

I've been lucky in that the sound that I like to hear my pedal steel making is totally different from the modern, nasal, steel sound that seems to be so popular, and a good old fashioned Peavey with a 15 inch speaker is all I need to get 'my' tone.