Telonics Pre 1000

[Mark]

Some good questions in this post... I'll have a stab at some answers.

Firstly, I'm sure Dave would want me to thank you for using or considering buying Telonics equipment. Dave's passion for what he and his team of engineers designs and builds is remarkable; it's the detail that blows me away...

What is the difference between the PRE-200 and PRE-1000? Both preamps have in essence the same EQ design and same quality of build, that's an important characteristic to note. However, the PRE-1000 has an additional 'Presence' control that neither the PRE-200 or new Combo has. The PRE-1000 has a 2nd channel and EQ controls for that channel; very handy for integrating a second instrument into your rig like a guitar. The late Johnny Davis actually preferred the second channel for steel; it has a completely different design of EQ that allows a remarkable range of EQ adjustment using just two tone control knobs. Perhaps the most significant extra control fitted to the PRE-1000 and the new Combo is the Dry/Wet Fader; a very handy feature that the PRE-200 does miss. Finally the PRE-1000 has a stereo analogue modeled (with model adjustment) XLR direct out. I don't believe the PRE-200 out was modeled (EQ'ed to sound like a JBL speaker), the new Combo is modeled but has one fixed model; that to be honest is the one most people would use.

With regards to US and UK prices - The UK prices are relatively simple, when the goods arrive, all the figures are available, we work out a price so hopefully we don't lose money and the players get the best deal we can do... and we publish that price. Now the thing to note here is what you buy in the US and what you buy here isn't always identical... obviously the supply voltage varies but we also have good old European regulation to satisfy... and believe me that increases the costs Now with regards to US prices, at one stage we did publish the US prices and this caused problems. Most people understand that to ship goods and insure that shipment from the US isn't cheap, shipping agents add their bit and then Duty and VAT are added, then there's the variations in the currency market and varying exchange rate deals and a small amount to cover time supporting the product... you cannot directly compare the US and UK prices. Quite frequently I found myself answering difficult emails... asked to supply goods without VAT, taking payment in some obscure currency... but I couldn't do it. All our goods are properly imported in accordance EORI procedures with all the required taxes paid. Having removed the US prices those requests have virtually disappeared... thank goodness... Added to that, in the US some companies act as dealers for specific products, such as the speakers or the FP-100 volume pedal, and it was felt that they should be able to set and publish the price at a level that was sustainable for their own business in the US.

With regards to people getting a different deal... I think US and UK prices are pretty consistent. There are times when the currency market conditions are good and this allows a little extra UK discount, but most of the time margins are pretty narrow and the price is what it is. You could try asking Dave Beaty if he's embarrassed at the price?

I hope that helps.
Mark

[Malcolm]

Mark, thank you for your answers about differences between models, very interesting. I still can't see why they don't publish prices in US, most manufacturers publish an rrp , giving customers a rough guide to their prices, retailers can then choose to sell at that price or give a discount eg buying a car, very few garages sell at rrp, but use the rrp to claim the "fantastic " discount" they are giving, stimulating competition and giving customers better deals.
I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that the 1000, is powered by wall wart at 24volts, so should not be affected by voltage difference.
My comment about being embarrassed by price was not directed at Dave only, and I do appreciate the amount of commitment he puts into the steel world,but to the amount of people who use this method of "phone or email for price "to get the absolute maximum out of prospective buyers, personally I never buy from anyone who is not prepared to put an honest price up front, my local shops don't say call or email for price, in an attempt to see what I would be willing to pay to get maximum out of me.Just my personal opinion.
I very much appreciate your reply and take this opportunity to say to those who don't know you ( and those who do)' that Mark is a great guy all round, and gives service way beyond what is expected .Thanks Mark

[Mark]

Thank you Malcolm for those nice comments, Davie for starting the thread and everyone who has posted. It's helpful to raise these questions because if you're saying it, others are probably thinking it, and it provides the perfect opportunity to suggest some answers.

The PRE-1000 when used in rack is actually powered by the PA-4200 power-amp that has a 24VDC output on the back panel and another 24VDC output on the front panel for powering the FP-100 volume pedal. If the PRE-1000 is used as a standalone unit it can be powered by a wall wart, but it has to be an international version. There are one or two other changes made to the PRE-1000 for use in the Europe. For example, the unit has a notch filter to reject mains hum; the American model is set up to reject 60Hz, the European model is set up to reject 50Hz.

I had an email last night from Dave Beaty, he also reminded me, "the PRE-1000 pre-amplifier is a true stereo device requiring a companion amplifier (the PA-4200) and two speakers/cabinets. Whereas, the Combo Amplifiers are single channel, monaural, single speaker." Although just for interest, the Combo Aux Input (iPod input)and Headphone Output on the Combo are maintained in stereo.

Just for interest, Dave Beaty aired some thoughts last week about making a lower cost version of the Combo... we discussed what features could be cut to help keep down the cost. If you haven't seen it, the Combo user manual can be downloaded here - http://www.tpa-az.com/page26.htm, the question is, what features would you not use? Thought I should start a new thread for this discussion, I've put it in News Bob... I wasn't sure if this is the right section, but we don't appear to have an Electronics section.

Cheers all
Mark

[Malcolm]

Thanks Mark, Davie looks like a combo for you.

[Davie Holland]

Mark. Thanks for the info. I only play steel which of course is only mono, and also the PA for the band is also mono unless I hog two channels and pan left and right, but not needed as no stereo effect is used.

Totally understand the hum filter, also used on the profex 1 switchable from 50 to 60 hz.

The sound I achieved from the pre 1000 was great, and doesnt require a stereo setup. Like all good power/pre amps. Left channel is always mono.

Or am I not understanding the setup of thePre 1000?

Maybe I'm missong half my sound! Lol

[Davie Holland]

Just for interest also, couldnt there be a lower cost pre 1000 ie a mono version as used in the combo for those who only require one instrument.?

I understand the R and D costs but surely taking away would be more cost effective than adding to? Now you see the true scotsman lol

[Mark]

Davie

Mono v Stereo - Yes it is true that the signal exiting most guitars is mono, but as soon as you pass it through effects the benefit of stereo will be noticeable. As you know reverb can be an important part of a steel guitar sound and this benefits greatly from being heard in stereo. In a live situation you might debate the pros and cons, but if you ever want to record yourself live or DI your rig into a big PA keeping the effects in stereo helps the steel sit nicely in the mix.

A lower cost PRE-1000 - Unfortunately it isn't that simple... if you decided to populate the boards with less components the robots that assemble the boards have to be reprogrammed, the people who install components by hand have to receive new instruction and these instructions have to generated by engineering staff. Then test procedures have to be amended... it goes on and on... manual rewritten.... before you know it you've spent 10's of thousands of pounds for what... maybe a few 10's of unit sales. In today's world we're all use to buying cheap electronic equipment... iPods, TV's etc... Most of this equipment is made in several 100's of thousands of units or more and the development and engineering cost spread across this huge volume. Electronics for the steel guitar world is a different game... a few hundred unit sales... hopefully! I don't think Dave even considers adding development costs into his prices, you're just paying for production costs but you're getting equipment professionally designed and manufactured specifically for the job...

Mark

[Davie Holland]

Mark, just used the Pre 1000 at the local steelies get together, and again, it has impressed not just me, but others at the meet.
Can you send me details please of how to get my hands on one so that Mr Zum can have his back?

Cheers

Davie

[Mark]

Hi Davie

I know what you mean... it's an impressive piece of kit... Wish I could have been at your get together. Yes, you'd better return it sharpish... or he'll poot thee ed on yee! Excuse my Scots...

Send me an email and I'll reply with all the details you'll need to get the ball rolling - [email protected]

Many thanks

Mark

[Malcolm]

Davie, just out of curiosity, how was the Pre 1000 powered or did you use Billy's power amp as well? My understanding from what Mark said,was that it required using the Telonics power amp, correct me if I misunderstood that Mark.If it was powered from external source other than power amp, that would mean it was a stand alone version contrary too my understanding.