effects pedal

[Paulcouk]

Hi every one
dose the effects pedal go before the volume pedal or after
Thank you
Paul

[Jif]

I always put the effects pedal after the volume pedal. Main reason is to try and present a high impedance to the pickup. The input impedance on the volume pedal is a high impedance which avoids tone loss/drop. Effects pedals may also have a high impedance input, but I believe most pedal steel volume pedals have a definite high impedance and are designed to work with pedal steel pickups.

Also it just seems to sound better that way

[Paulcouk]

Thank you Jif
Ive got it wrong the effects pedal first then the volume pedal
I shall change it
Thanks Peul

[simonscott]

I have been playing with this recently so may be able to help. passive volume pedals will suck the high end of your tone as you back them off from maximum. This gives you a traditional sound heard on most 60s recordings.
If you want a more modern sound where the tone stays consistent as you reduce volume the answer is to run a buffer between the guitar and the volume pedal. Goodrich matchbox and sarno freeloader are popular buffers.
The good news is nearly all effect pedals include some sort of buffer circuit.
So you can experiment by putting it before or after the volume and see which you prefer.
What effect pedals are you using?

[simonscott]

Jif you're quite right about presenting a high impedance to the pickup. this is why passive pedals suck tone as they normally use a 500k pot but the pickup is likely in excess of 7000k. buffers will typically present an impedance of 10000k or more which is why they really brighten up your tone.

[simonscott]

sorry, typo, pickup is in excess of 7k.

[Jif]

Most buffer circuits such as the matchbox etc are usually a simple FET circuit. I used to build my own with a 10meg input impedance. I always thought that the commercial boxes were well over priced.

I used to have one built into my MSA, but after I bought a Lehle mono 90 volume pedal, I found that it didn't make any noticeable difference, so removed it. It did obviously make a difference with the passive volume pedal I previously used.

A difference having the effects pedal first in the case of delay or reverb, may be that these effects would be getting the full volume before the volume pedal, that might make a difference in how it sounds. For example, if you were swelling into a note, the reverb might be overloud at the beginning of the swell, as it is getting the reverb /delay signal at a louder volume than it would be, if the volume pedal was before the effects box. If that makes sense. Only way to find out is try it and see.

Whatever works for you is the right way. I find having the volume pedal first in the chain works best for me.

[Paulcouk]

HI
Thank you to thoes who have replayed
I know nothing about sound waves so forgive me if I ask some many questions
I bought am amp te other day, It too me a long time to get the guitar and backing tracks from computer to go to the ear phones
I have a lend of boss reverb and a delay to see if it makes any diffrance to my afull playing ( only beginer )
but you say about the volume pedal ..my pedal only starts working half way, I changed the pot so i dont know
but im only learning but it sound horrible to me hence why the earphones
I understand where yu are saying try the pedals before and after the volume pedal
thanks Paul

[Jif]

Looking at your previous posts, I see you have a Goodrich Volume pedal and a Carter 10 string pedal steel. Re the problem with your volume pedal, changing the pot and getting the string to work properly over the full range can be a bit of a challenge. This guide from Greg Cutshaw is very helpful.

https://www.gregcutshaw.com/Goodrich%20120%20Pot/Goodrich%20120%20Pot.html

I presume you used a Dunlop replacement. The pot is logarithmic, which means the resistance over the pot travel is not linear. So as you rotate the pot the resistance increases in a logarithmic fashion over the travel. So the rate of volume change will vary over the travel. I would check with Greg's guide that you have wired it correctly, but it may just be that the volume change is working correctly and you are expecting the change to be the same amount over the whole travel of the pedal, (linear), whereas as it is logarithmic, it will change at different rates over the whole travel of the pedal. Sorry if this is confusing, it's difficult to describe other than in electrical terms.

I would check the wiring first, and also check that you have the string set up as in the guide.

Reverb and delay make a big difference to the quality of the sound, however use it sparingly to get the best results. Too much reverb can sound like you are playing in a cavern, too much delay and it muddies the sound. Just a touch of room reverb works best, with a short delay time on your delay pedal, with one or two repeats.

When I started it sounded crap, and a lot of that has to do with technique. As you progress, it will start to sound better.

Have you stopped playing it through your amp? What is the make/model of your amp? Some amps work better with pedal steel than others.

[simonscott]

I agree with all Jiff has said above, sounds as though the pot is wired wrong or the string has slipped so you are not getting full rotation of the pot.

I also prefer to use any pedals after the volume pedal. I like delay and reverb to be right at the end of the signal chain so Id put them in the fx loop of the amp if it has one.
The exception to this would be a buffer as mentioned earlier or certain pedals like fuzz that can sound completely different if they're not first in the signal chain. Not sure there's much demand for fuzz on a psg though!

Like Jiff, I can't justify the price of a specialist buffer considering it's such a simple circuit. I have just built a clone of the Goodrich matchbox with a bypass switch so you can hear instantly what effect it has. I love it and wouldn't hesitate in buying a real one if I didn't have the skills to build my own.

Another good experiment would be to use a boss pedal between the guitar and volume. To the best of my knowledge, all boss pedals use a buffered bypass rather than true bypass and have a 1meg input impedance so you should be able to hear a difference even with the pedal turned off.