Newbie Questions

[Dode]

Hi all, new player here based in Edinburgh. Just signed up to the forum today (apologies if I'm posting this in the wrong part of the forum).

Managed to find myself an older ZB Custom (image attached) about 3 months ago. Emmons setup. Just been messing about/using YouTube guides at home with it up till now - starting to really get my head round it (I teach guitar which has helped a lot). Got a few questions though:

1) It'll be a while before I can afford an amp voiced for a steel. So, any general guides on using guitar amp settings to achieve a decent tone would be much appreciated. I also have a Line6 amp modeller (I know, I know..) - but I figured this''ll do the trick for now if I'm just playing at home and getting my technique up. So - which models might give me the best sound?

2) Where's the best place to look for free online guides? I also don't mind paying a little if they come recommended by everyone here.

3) I'm having some tuning issues with the levers. Kind of expected this given the age/price of the model, but I'm willing to work around it. The far left lever and the far right lever tend to detune their corresponding strings quite drastically (although the more I use them during one sitting, the less this seems to happen. Is this normal?). Any tips on sorting this/people in Edinburgh who might be able to help me? I was in touch with Bob Adams of pedalsteel.co.uk - who did a full service before I bought it. However, he's based about an hour away in Fife and I don't have a car...

Thanks in advance for your help, and looking forward to developing as a steelie!

[Tony Russell Davis]

Not sure what models the Line6 has but the Fender Twin should be there and that was the standard amp for many years (I still use one). The big Peaveys will probably not be there, but a Roland JC120 might be close.
Have a search for (the late) Bobbe Seymour or (the very much alive) Micky Adams on youtube. That'll get you onto some good stuff and you'll be presented with loads more on the sidebar.
Next, not sure what you mean by "detuning the corresponding strings"? You know that they re-tune strings, so that can't be what you mean.
As a tip - when you describe knee-levers it's best to say what they do, rather than just where they are. When you say "Emmons" we know where your pedals are, but the (usually 4) KLs have no standard placement; so your left and right one could perform any number of functions.
They are generally named depending to the position and then function, like this= LKL (left knee to the left) - "E's to F"; LKR (left knee right) - E's to Eb (which is what mine do). Also using the string number(s) is OK too, rather than naming the the note like: RKL - "half tone lower, 2 and 9" and RKR - "half tone raise, 1 and 7".
If you check out players' copedents you may also come across a "V" for vertical (I've got a "RKV") or even "in" and "out" ("RKL in", "RKL out") meaning that their guitar has two KLs in the same position, one positioned nearer and the other further away from the player (that's how you get ten or so knee levers fitted in) so they have to hitch forward to get at the outer one.
Hope this is helpful - and do get back to us about the "detuning? We want to help.
By the way, Bob has a very sound and well earned reputation as a techy in the PSG world. ZBs hold no terrors for that man!

[Dode]

Hi Tony, thanks for the response! Listening to Bobbe Seymour as I type - beautiful stuff. Will also try out the Twin sound when I get a chance to practice later on.

I should have been clearer when talking about the knee-levers; what I meant was that 'LKL - half tone higher, 4 and 8' + 'RKR - half tone lower, 2 and 9' perform as they should when engaged, but when I revert the levers back to their resting positions the strings are often wildly detuned - i.e. what should be Es are now closer to Fs for instance. As I said, the more I engage these particular knee-levers the more the problem goes away. So it's something I can work around, but a little frustrating knowing that the first few times I use them at each sitting will result in me having to stop and re-tune. LKR and RKL are absolutely fine. Hope this is all clearer?

Yes, Bob was very good with his time just before I purchased it! Great guy. I rang him for an impartial opinion on the model and he advised me to go for it. Would definitely pop up there and seek his help if I was able to - but, as you know, steels aren't the easiest beasts to transport without a car

[bob adams]

Yo Dode, !?

Good to see you’ve found your way to the forum. We did speak briefly on the phone and yes my advice was to buy at the price you were paying, it was a very good deal. In reality what happened was the seller contacted me re. some things that were broken or not right
as he wanted it in reasonable shape to sell, I did fix a number of things as time permitted and in part as a favour but I didn’t present it as a ‘full service’ These guitars just need a little TLC to tweak out minor problems. If the LKL return is affecting 8 & 4 (its own change) then it would most likely be a spring issue but if it is affecting other strings it sounds like those LH/RH turnbuckles are fouling a tad. To be honest ZBs run much smoother if the rods come straight from the changer and adjust with a nut at the yoke/ crossbar doing away with those couplings altogether! I am busy over the next couple of weeks in the run up to Ireland but happy to have a look at it sometime after the 18th-19th weekend. Where are you in Edinburgh? For the record and tech work I do on steels is done in Glasgow, that’s where the tools are! Good luck with it in the meantime.

Re. instruction http://www.pedalsteel.co.uk/instruction

[Tony Russell Davis]

I said Bob's a good-un; you seem to be about sorted.
Those old ZBs are seriously good guitars, but heavy. For some reason they can change hands at little money compared to more popular or modern brands, but you can rely on great tone from them. One of my US pals still keeps one in UK for tours of Europe, and he's got an Anapeg back home!
Like most things on a guitar that's been handmade on bench using few tools, it's not too hard a job (engineering-wise) to re-jig the KLs so they are ergonomically better placed and have some simpler adjustments for angle etc., but I guess that's a future thing for you. Best wishes on your learning curve. T.

[Zebedee]

If the 4th string does not come back true after being raised by the knee lever, it could quite possibly be the 'C' pedal and its linkages to the 4th string that is causing the problem.

Take a look at the underside of your steel, and see if the 'C' pedal linkage is tight or binding on other rods.
Check that the 'C' pedal is free to move on its axle on the pedal bar.

Put your foot under the 'C' pedal (to stop it dropping) and activate the knee lever (that raises the 4th string), then release the lever, and see if the string returns true.

[Dode]

Hi Bob (Dode is Scottish for George..)! Hmm that's interesting - the seller gave me the impression that it was a full service. Anyway, I really can't complain too much.

The LKL is only affecting its own change - i.e. 4 & 8. Same with the RKR (though the problem for this knee-lever is nowhere near as bad). I think Zebedee might be on to something (thanks for the tips by the way!): the LKL issue seems to be linked to the C pedal. As mentioned before, if I use the LKL a few times in a row the problem starts to fade until it goes away altogether. However, if I go between using the LKL and the C pedal then both cause de-tuning once everything is returned to resting positions. Think I might need to get you to have a look when you're back, Bob! I'm based in Morningside but happy to find a way of travelling to you. As I said, I can work around it for now and concentrate more on my left and right hand technique (Plus the A + B pedals, LKR & RKL work absolutely fine).

Yes, I'm delighted with it Tony. Just need to keep it well-maintained and get a better understanding of how the underside works. Cheers for the encouragement everyone, seems likes I'm in good hands here

[ZBSD-10]

Hallo Dode
You won't go far wrong with Bob Adams, and compared to the rest of us he's on your door step !
I, as you will find out, have had more ZB's than soft Mick, I swear by them as old and out of date
and as heavy as they are ( Bit like me and Donnie ,ha,ha !!), the sound when set up with a good
amp is magic !
That's the up side , the down side is, a ZB is not the guitar for any newcomers to work on, ask Bob !
He will give you all the help and assistance you want , trust me (???)
Once it is up and running as it should be you will then be more than happy with it, incidently, what is
the serial number ? it'll be situated by the output jack on the bottom of the changer head end plate .
All the best.
Frank. Wales

[Dode]

Hi Frank. Yeah, I'm already getting a pretty nice sound out of it (even if the playing itself needs some work..). I can tell already that I'll have to take good care of it, but glad to hear ZBs are so well thought of! The serial number is 0523 - does that mean anything to you?

[Donny Johnston]

I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK FRANK.