Lets have a talk about knee levers ...???

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

This may be tosh so feel free to shoot me down ...if you so desire, but this is my slant on it after 40plus years of trying to play and knowing nothing about music..... but it may be helpful to the newbies.....
How many knee levers do you actually need on a steel guitar?, I know the industry standard nowadays is 4 But what do you really need?? for me if I can lower and raise my E`s I can then play most anything I am capable of playing....... I am not going to say the rest are complete window dressing but I would advise any newbie to completely master those two before they venture further. The up and down of the E`s in conjunction with the pedals gives me 4 solid versions of the same major chord and with those 4 different chord shapes you can derive so many melodies ...., that alone could keep you busy for 20 years! plus those two levers give you access to some of the sweetest 6th and 7th chords.
I used to wonder why Gordon H. needed so many levers on his old ZB, 8, I think..., it was only in recent years that I learned why... you cannot have four different actions on one lever as the effort required to work it means the guitar is trying to exit stage left (depending on your set up) and you know how heavy a D!) ZB is....
With my push pull I can have one lever doing 3 different jobs, that is if you count double lowers pushing through stops so, if my two on the right are doing three jobs each and my two on the left are doing one job each.... then that makes eight same as Gordon but with half the levers....

OK kettle`s boiled now ...I`m off to make the tea>>>>>>>>>

[Uncle Roy]

I personally think you are not wrong JD. Both of my guitars just sport 4 levers each and that just about all I Am capable of using. I do understand why there are more available but as you say most things I can play are there on the four and certainly the most used are the the E levers. Anymore for me would be just for show
Right where's my porridge?

[SteelieAJK]

For E9, E raise & lower & 2nd single lower staple... other changes icing IMO, reckon I could gig happily on a 3+3.

[Tony Russell Davis]

I agree with Alan, although I do have 7 levers (the "usual" 4 on E9 plus a vertical; and two that operate only on C6th). I regard my copedent as pretty standard these days judging by the tutorial stuff around.
I have a theory that, once you start adding additional knee-levers, you can get stuck in a rut of repeating certain phrases that those changes give you, instead of actually playing music. We do like to hear what people have on their guitars, but should avoid being evangelistic about "our" setup, it won't suit everybody.

[David Hartley]

Great thread John....

And before I start.. Don't forget I am popping in to see you tomorrow to pick up the 'youknowwhat'....

I started with 3 plus 1..

Then soon added an E's raise..

Learnt everything from that....

But, 3 plus 4 is just about what you need to get everything you need, but there's always that time when you wished for another, and another, and maybe, yet another..

So, me, now is 5 plus 5.

The instrument gets heavier with each add on too.. Of course....

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

Interesting replies, however I still stand by my original thoughts as far as new players are concerned because a forest of knee levers begats confusion and you do not need that to start with...... How many Pro 1`s came out of the factory with just the one knee lever??? its just the way that the thing has evolved.... but the lower and raise of the E`s is vital IMHO, as it allows the smooth transition (thats a big word for 12.46 ) of the major chords up and down the fretboard>>>>><<<<>>><<

Dave,
Kettle will be on if you have the time

[johnherring]

Good thread John. Like Uncle Roy, both my guitars have 4 levers, and while I have picked up some theory over the years and understand why I might need them, I have not yet arrived at the point
where more levers are essential for me to progress further. For those of you who have them and know how and when to use them, good luck and well done! Maybe I'll get there someday.

All the best, John H.

[Will C]

I reckon I do about 90% with just the E's raise and lower. Funny enough, I seem to have hardly ever bothered to use the 2nd string lower. I have to have the 9th string raise on my U12 to simulate the 9th string D on an E9, and the 4th lever is 1&2 raise, 6 lower, which is useful once in a blue moon. I really rate Tony's comment about the danger of getting into the rut of playing musical cliches because that's what the setup allows. But yes, having just the two knee levers would make us think a lot more about what we're playing.

Will C

[Nick Bidmade]

Interesting!
Despite queries about installing 'split' tunings on my guitar (see Technical section) like others here I'm pretty much finding that 2 pedals and 2 levers is pretty much all you need for a lifetimes playing and learning.
I but quite a lot of tabs from Erv Niehaus via the US Forum and I think I am yet to come across him using more than 2+2 - everything from Cole Porter to Coal Miner's Daughter!

[Paul Brennan]

It's true you can play just about about anything with 2 + 2. That said, sometimes the Nashville cats are trying to get out of the rut of the same old stuff sounding the same old way. If they can do it with another pedal/lever combination it's going to sound different enough to liven up the old, tired, cliches. Players like PF and Mike Johnson are masters at this. Listen to what Weldon Myrick and Hal Rugg used to do with the second string lever - that ought to keep y'all busy for a while! Even Lloyd Green with his super simple setup supplements his style with slants galore.