"Student" model guitars

[ossettjohn]

Why is there a difference between student and pro models? When I bought my PSG I looked at a GFI student and a GFI expo. The student model had a different copedent from the other GFI models, in that the 1st string only raised half a tone from F sharp to G, whereas all the others raised a whole tone. Not wanting to be the odd one out, I bought the expo and am very happy with it, but can anyone explain why the student model was different. I know that there are other differences as well such as Grover tuners on the expo but why the different copedent?

[James Crowbear]

student models have a SET copedent/ set up that can't be modified
( well some have managed to so )
whereas economy & pro models copedents CAN be altered

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

I think there is more to it than that........ The reason that Shaky and Al Brisco can make a CS sound so good is they have both been playing since Noah sold the Ark!! But for anyone just starting out who does not have the ability to adjust this and tweak that its a different ball game IMHO.... I once worked with a guitar player by the name of Kit Morgan he was fantastic! I once heard him play a plastic ukelele and it made you want one!! sounded just like Larry Carlton!!
Steel is no different IMO get the best instrument you can afford if your serious about playing...... its not as easy as some make it look to play well and you don`t need a guitar that works against you......
My two penny worth >>>>>>>

[bob adams]

John, your 'basic GFI' had the capability for the changes but would have needed a little additional help.

The difference between these models is the complexity of their changers. On modern PSGs they are two or three piece changer fingers assemblies, on the (student type) models they are one piece. That makes them a basic ‘push pull guitar.’

Meaning: all levers moving away from the changer raise and all moving towards it lower!

If you can saddle the crossbar with a double stop ie, a yoke on the crossbar with an adjustable screw each side you can then create a dead stop either way. Then acting against the lower string you will successfully achieve double raise and lower on strings one and two!

The 1st string raise gets its half stop when the 7th raise engages. And the 2nd lower gets the half when the 9th lower engages. Trust me it works I just did one last weekend for someone!

The capability to put adjustable legs on is dependent on the socket thread size and the pickups which are generally very thin can of course be replaced.

All that said I do agree with JD a second hand pro guitar if in reasonable condition will give more long term satisfaction especially if you intent to gig it!

As a kid I loved the steel sound so I tightened guitar strings across two setscrews and nuts and tried to play it with the face of my watch! It don’t come any more basic than that! eh!!

[SHAKEY]

Well I suppose there are lots of ways to look at it. First off paying a thousand quid for a pro steel ain't going to make a novice play or sound any better than a four hundred quid student model. When you leave school you decide to do an apprenticeship, what happens, you get all the crap jobs and often have to learn to make your own tools, that way you learn the trade and learn to respect what you have because you worked hard at it.
That's how I became a steel player, building and learning on home made steels and experimenting because I could never afford a proper steel . There are a lot of would be steel players out there that don't even know how to tune a steel properly because they bought a guitar that cost a bomb and was set up for them at the factory, when they got home it was out of tune and they had no idea what to do with it. Then it gets stuffed under the bed for 20 years.
I reckon no matter how simple or complicated the mechanism or pedal setup is, if you know how it works and how to adjust it you are well on the way.

[James Crowbear]

certain Student models are " Pull Release " such as the Zum Stage One, WBS Basic, GFI, Maverick & others i imagine
the Old School is often sold on " Push Pulls " we know this means Emmons, Promat or ZumSteel Hybrid
Then the Majority who just LOVE the " All Pull " - easy to set up / make changes
that's the " All Around Pro Model "

Bang 4 £ $ or €, the Zum Stage One is Excellent
the only qualm i have : i wish it would have the Sho~Bud E Lever on RKL ( Es to Eb )as an option
i often asked for it - Not Possible
So it comes w: the Emmons E Lever LKR

imo the best Alternative, Budget Wise, are the " Economy " Models
they are " All Pull " - & can be set up most any way
they are Light, Reliable, in Tune & sound good
Mullen Discovery - Justice Prolite - Zumsteel Encore & more

as to playin' & making sense of the darn thang, no matter what you have, it will take a lot of Work, Time, Practice, Playing w: Others & Having Fun
( i decided i'd be better off playing Harmonica ....................& geetar............................like Zimmy............................... LOL )

[Donny Johnston]

WHAT BOB SAID. WHAT SHAKEY SAID. WHAT CROWBEAR SAID. WHAT JOHN SAID.

[ossettjohn]

Thanks for all the replies. None of them really really answer my question, though. How often would you use the first string semitone raise to G rather than to G sharp? I often use first and second string together to get a lovely raise to resolve them to the root which I couldn't do on the student model.
nI bought the expo version, BTW, because of this perceived problem with the first string. I also felt that the adage buy cheap, buy twice operated here. I know from 50 years of guitar playing that a cheap guitar is harder to play than a well built one, although I can still get a decent tone out of a cheap guitar because of my experience. Beginners sound better playing my Martin acoustic than their own fifty quid beginners model. The difference, though, is that both guitars are set up and tuned the same way and doing the same things on both guitars will produce the same result. Why not with student PSGs?

[Tony Russell Davis]

John - Here's another personal opinion that might address your query. Incidentally, I also agree with what my friends have said before (Dave is dead right in his philosophy - you can't play at all if you don't have some kinda guitar that works! Bob is a mechanical genius and can fix up anything!) They all put valid points (that Donny is always contentious ).
I think you got the answer to your basic question; student models are built to a budget and therefore have mechanical limitations - adjustability being an important one (as CB said). So, the company puts on the most "standard" changes and often has to compromise the KLs positions. Usually you get the Jeff Newman 3+3 (or 4) to fit in with available tutor books.
There's a lot in that copedent anyway - I don't have the "double" raise on the first string (just have F# to G) and never felt the loss. I don't lower the second to two notes either (just D# to D). Often these things become popular because some "name" does it and the consequent lick gets popular. Sometimes we get hung up on some change that's popular and forget to learn how to play the guitar. If I don't have a pedal/KL that does some particular thing, I try searching for it elsewhere on the guitar. Surprising how many times it's there.
So get the "best" guitar you can afford to learn on - after all, a 2nd hand pro model will usually sell again for at least what you paid, so you can recoup the dosh if it's not for you? Which is cousin John's point, I think.
Best of luck, Tone.

[SHAKEY]

Donny, your in the wrong game mate you should be a politician, maybe even President of Scotland, well you never know, you certainly couldn't do any worse than the idiots in Downing Street. John it seems to me you've answered your own question with your last post and Tony you talk a lot of sense and d'you know there is one other thing here I don't think anyone has mentioned and that is having a good teacher. A good teacher can help you with technique that will help you get the best sound out of any steel, cheap or otherwise. Hands on is always better than tapes videos, etc. Dave.