Lets have a talk about knee levers ...???

[Tony Russell Davis]

Geoff - here's my take on the issues you raise. It may be pretty well known to many out there, but I reckon it's never wrong to go back over the basics - somebody will be new to this instrument.
There are certain logical parameters, like - action not too heavy or too light (the guitar should not move across the stage when you operate a knee lever nor should you be able to operate one without feeling it). Within those, the "feel" should be what makes you comfortable while playing, otherwise you can build up mental blocks that hinder advancement as you avoid using this or that "difficult" change.
On an all-pull the different positions on the bell-cranks allow you to alter the feel. Pull-rods attached nearer to the cross-rod make the action lighter but travel is further; and vice versa. I like all the KLs to have (roughly) the same feel (and a short travel) but this can be tricky to achieve on multiple pulls. You have already noted that an additional "weight" kicks in when another string is picked up. That was often used (still is on older mechanisms) to provide a half stop on (for instance) the second string lower on E9th. By also hitching that KL to the 9th string (typically) and messing round with string gauges and where the rods fit on the bell-crank and changer fingers you can get that extra weight to kick in when the 2nd string has lowered exactly a half tone, where you feel the "stop". Then both strings can lower further until 2nd is a whole tone down and 9th lowered a half tone.
I don't know the tuning on your Carter, but could that trick be somebody's reason for the odd feel on 6 + 2? I have never been comfortable with that system and so I just don't use half stops.
The only other point I would make is about the lever position relative to your knee. Most guitars have some sort of adjustment for the angle of the lever off the cross rod. I like to set these pretty close to my knee, almost touching. Some prefer more space, especially on Unis where the left leg needs to cover a number of pedals. I have two additional left KLs near the centre of the guitar that operate only on C6th, and even these are close up despite having 5 pedals under control of the same leg.

[Jif]

Hi Tony,

Many thanks for your reply. It confirms what I am finding as I am adjusting the Carter to "my feel", although I'm still not exactly sure what "my feel" is just yet! However I guess this is a work in progress for most players. I've done quite a bit of reading and research on rodding etc, and I did a lot of adjustments (days of trial and error!) on the GFI to get it playing how I liked it. The GFI was a pretty simple setup compared to the Carter but it allowed me to learn the basic principles of rodding and adjustment. I have rodding charts, so I'm taking notes as I go and can always return changes to their original setup if necessary.

I'm finding I prefer a short travel on the knees as this gives a more definite feel and a faster action, same with the position of the knees, close to the knee feels better for me. I think I prefer the smooth action to having a half stop, TBH I'm not sure how I would use half stops in any case as I'm still learning what the full travel does and how to use it I've tried to get all the knees having the same travel and they're pretty much there, the only one which has a bit of a longer travel than I'd like is the RKR which is the E to Eb on the Carter, it also lowers string 2 a full tone. So as you pointed out where there are multiple pulls a compromise may be required but I'm still working on that one.

It'll probably be a while before I use pedals 4-7 in earnest, but I'm not finding the KLs are hampering me when I try using them.

Looking at the co-pedent (below) for the Carter from the Steel Guitar Info site, it seems that LKR is set up to allow a half tone drop to G but in conjunction with pedal 2. Not sure I get this exactly, how I'm reading it is that using LKR and P2 in conjunction lowers a half tone but is this because LKR is lowering string 6 a full tone and P2 is then raising it a half tone, the result being a half tone drop to G? So not sure if this is actually a half stop

This sure is a peculiar instrument -but I like it

[john roche]

hi Geoff, this may be of help to you...the default rodding chart for your carter uni.

http://www.steelguitar.com/rodding.html

[Jif]

Hi John,

Thanks for that, very useful.

I'm really liking the guitar BTW, it's taken a few weeks to get used to the change from the GFI, especially on the right hand, but I'm getting the hang of it now. Still tuning the pedals & knees into what feels right for me but generally I'm enjoying playing it. There is quite a quality jump from a student model to a pro model, as you will know, and a lot of the theory is now beginning to come together for me since I bought the guitar. Which is great.

I bought a BJS John Hughey 12 string bar and this has made a big difference. I was using a Dunlop 920 bar but I found I was having to use a lot of pressure because of the lower strings, the BJS is a bit heavier and longer, besides being a much better bar. I might look at getting gauged rollers next year depending on how I get on but the heavier bar is making a difference already.

Hope things are good with you, have a good festive season

[john roche]

Hi Geoff, just to say about the 2 string drop to c# , it's a very important part of the b6th setup' as you would hold the knee lever in place while playing 6th it is not so important that all strings move together plus as you have to hold it there for a long time it is better t o have it as easy as possible, that is the reason some unit's have a lock on that lever.
just take you time getting used yo the setup and it I'll reward you in the long run. glad you do like the guitar. a happy Xmas and new year to you and yours .... john

[Tony Russell Davis]

Geoff - one small point I didn't make earlier - and this assumes you play another instrument as most of us are guitarists. When you play a chord on standard guitar you don't think of controlling each finger as an individual movement, you "just do it". The same eventually happens with PSG, except it's body parts and not just fingers that (almost) automatically assume the necessary position. When you find yourself doing that subconsciously, you are at peace with the steel guitar!

[Jif]

Hi Tony,

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean! It is coming the more I practice, but when it goes askew, it really goes askew! My friends reckon you've got to have something of the contortionist in you to play this beast.

Preaching to the converted here I know, it drives me mad sometimes, but when it comes together it's so sweet it's totally addictive.

Don't know if I'll ever be truly at peace with PS but I am beginning to think of myself as a pedal steel guitarist as opposed to a guitarist who plays a bit of pedal steel.

Thanks to you both for your helpful advice