ZB S10 ...3 X 3

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

WoW!! did`ent this one come up nice!!! I think its the first clean its had since 1969!!

And it plays as good as it looks!! ( this one maybe a keeper )

[ZBSD-10]

At last you have seen the light !! welcome back to the fold of ZB 'ers
All the best
Frank. Wales

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

I said maybe Frank .... but if someone comes along with a wedge (Thick enough to choke a horse!) who knows

[bob1]

Hi everyone I have bought a ZB/MSA unfinished project and was looking for a little information, The changer and keyhead is ZB the bell cranks is MSA the guy I bought it off said that this is a better system oh and it is a 12 string the body is 1 1/2 and the end plates is all the way around in aluminium.
My question is it has 3 pedals and 3 knee levers the left LRL is not connected yet I would need someone to kindly let me know the full setup of 12 string 3+3.
I am a complete beginner to steel guitar but I will get this one going correctly if it is the last thing I do in this life the engineering side is not a problem so if I had the complete setup I could move from that. I really thing I would need to add another knee lever maybe please let me know your thought on this can add picture but want to get known on this site first thanks to everyone in advance Thanks Robert

[JohnDavisStringsHere]

Hi Robert, adding the knee lever should not be a big job, the rod into the mech is a bike spoke... should be easy enough the rest is a dodle if you can engineer... My Daughter sells the strings for the 12 string uni... there are plenty on here that can advise on set up. Good luck and welcome to the forum.JD




Frank, someone is coming for the S10 at the end of the month

[bob1]

Hi John Thanks very much for giving me some advice, I have plenty of bicycle spokes and bits and pieces and my brother is an metalwork engineer I bought this pedal steel in the mainland UK, I need to add pictures and let all you experienced guys see what this steel is like at the moment cos it will need to be repainted, re-polished and bits added here and there. So I will get the pics took and re-sized for the forum although I have put pictures on the USA site: The Steel Guitar forum http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 21#1963621
Anyway will get pics took and sorted and John your ZB S10 is a beauty would hope that I can get this S12 in the same shape.
Thanks again Robert

[Zebedee]

From looking at the photos on the US forum, it looks like it is set up the standard Emmons way, so the disconnected LKL should be set to raise strings 4 and 8 a semitone.

One area that may cause problems is the cross-shafts with bellcranks, you'll have the devil of a job getting those set correctly, 'cos of the way that the ZB changer works. It's far better to use a standard ZB swivelling yoke, so that you can tune the changer at the endplate.

[bob1]

Hi Again, Thanks Zebedee for the advice I am happy to hear from anyone who knows about the ZB Changer.
I need to start with the ZB changer and get to know how it works where I connect for lowering and rising the note, what all the screws are for etc.
If anyone would have a diagram or pdf on how this changer works or any other way of explaining it.
ZB changer is it push/pull ??
Anyway sorry for asking so many questions but as we all know we will get know where in life if we don't ask lol.
Thanks
Robert

[Tony Russell Davis]

ZB changer is all-pull, but works differently to the majority of A/Ps. Go back through the thread you linked from the US forum and you'll see many ZB undercarriages. The pedal, through an "L" lever, moves a "cross strap" that pivots on a machine screw and slides sideways, like a sneck on a garden gate. That pulls on a "yoke" with two rods attached. If more than two rods are needed you add more yokes (it follows the principles for harnessing up two or more horses to a cart). That way when one of the pulls bottoms out at the endplate, the yoke pivots and pulls the rest of the rods up snug. The pivot point is sometimes off centre so that different tension pulls (because of string gauges) can bottom out together(ish). I can't figure out how your pull-rods can pull a ZB changer since both rods start and stop together as the cross-rod turns and moves the bell-cranks. So when one bottoms out (to the pedal-tuned note), thats the end of the travel, whether the other has reached the right pitch or not. The ZB knee-levers work on cross-rods and the yoke attaches to a machine screw that works similarly to a bell-crank (there's one in your photo). The MSA mechanism is designed to work in a different way, the changer does not bottom out on the endplate but "floats". There's a dead stop at the bell-crank and the tuning is done by adjusting the final length of the pull-rod through a big aperture; look at photos of other guitar brand endplates. It seems to me that you only need one bell crank to two pull-rods; each bell-crank operating a pivoting yoke, you can then attach rods to that yoke and proceed as ZB intended. I see a knee-lever in one of the photos that seems to be attached to it's cross-rod via a remote linkage. ZB would have fixed the knee-lever directly to the cross-rod, which would have reached right across the guitar. And I can't quite figure out what the yoke without rods is for - the pivot pillar is unusual, I would have fixed it along the line of the guitar rather than across, to lessen the leverage on the screws. Anyway, keep us posted, keep asking questions and I'm sure you'll get sorted out. By the way, with 3+3 it is most likely your guitar was set up for an extended E9th (normal 10 string E9th plus two extra low strings, often G# and E) and not a Universal tuning. Uni-12s generally need 7 pedals and 4 or more K/Ls. Best wishes, Tony.
PS ZB pull-rods have a turnbuckle to adjust the length. That requires a right and a left hand threaded collar. If that's a problem you can join two rods side by side in a collar with grub screw. I've also seen cut down electric "chocolate block" connectors used; old Meccano parts too!
PPS google for "Kline hybrid" to get an idea of the yoke on a bell-crank principle. Maybe via "Julian Winston" site? Found it - http://www.julianwinston.com/music/the_kline_guitar.php

[Tony Russell Davis]

Incidentally Robert, I must pay credit to my pal Zebedee (aka Richard) who gave me a great deal of help to work on ZBs and is already on your case. Also Bob Adams (site admin) is a past master of ZB. Have a look at his site ( pedalsteel.co.uk ) for a photo of a stripped down ZB. Also here's a photo; I think it was either Richard or Bob sent it me - apologies to both for my memory!

You'll see a link half way down from where the string goes over. On the bottom half there are two more pivots. Pull the upper keyhole bar, it pivots at the bottom and the top bit moves one way to raise, pull the lower, it pivots at the upper one and allows it to move the other way to lower. T.