Emmons v Day v both

[acerod]

I honestly can't see what all the controversy is about. Whichever set-up you use if the knee levers are in their correct positions your knee will automatically go to the appropriate lever anyway. IMHO.

[STEDDIE EDDIE]

re knee levers and ZB, Yeah i couldnt agree more re there positions, i found my shortlived ZB really awkward to play, the knee levers were so badly placed, loved the sound though, and my final note on emmons v day v both, i think on reflection, if we cant use the established DAY or EMMONS description, the ABC or CBA description, as preffered by Ken and a few other, is probably better, rather than using and adding names at will, to the copedent description,

[Tony Russell Davis]

Assuming that the ZB still has its original changer (with the tuning done at the endplate) I don't see the need for all that extra work, Bob

Good stuff from Richard and Bob.
Should we get this transferred to another thread 'cos it's an interesting point! Or maybe that's just for the techies?
I can see the advantage of Bob's bushings, as the ZB turnbuckles don't always shorten the rod enough before running out of threads. But similar parts can be made for the original ZB cross-strap/yoke mechanism (done a little of that - God bless old Mechano bits) without ripping them out. However, when Bob did that job, the undercart had already been replaced; seems he just made "all that extra work", work! Looking at the US site it seems not that uncommon to replace the ZB system. My guess is, although it works pretty well (ZB, BMI, even Kline to an extent), it just doesn't look "normal" today.
Actually bushings like that are an advantage on any all-pull bell cranks, they provide more control over the rod length in order to get the optimum amount sticking through the changer flange. Otherwise you need to get the right angle bend (through the bell crank) in just the correct place, then find/make some of those little clips Kev and I have been seeking.

[acerod]

What does that little clip look like. I'm not familiar with ZBs but if they're like the BMI ones I've got a few spares.

[Tony Russell Davis]

Roy http://www.thebritishsteeliessociety.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2464#p9688 Here's the link to the thread about clips for ShoBud etc. On the ZB the bent end of the pull rod goes through the yoke and is drilled for a tiny cotter pin (I'm using copper wire). You will see the post by Bent Romnes on the link - similar would do for ZB's too.

[acerod]

Yes Tony That looks like the clips I have on the BMI. If I'm looking at the right thing. What I'll do is send you a couple and if they're what you want I can get more for you. PM your address to me and I'll get them in the post soon as I can.

[acerod]

[quote for" a tiny cotter pin" ][/quote]
Is this what you're looking for?

[slimbo]

.All TopicsMy TopicsAddOptions▼.Steel Guitar, complicated or what?.
.Over my years of playing the Steel Guitar, I have often wondered, when the first pedals and later the knee levers were added, how did we come up with the different pedal and lever lay out.
Most instruments are designed in such a way as to be played in only one way, I.e. fingers, feet, in already designated positions, the steel has it’s own design features, where as you are able to install levers where they suit the player best and to his ability.
When I first started to learn the Steel, I followed a well known Steel player Gordon Huntley of Mathews Southern Comfort.
It only had three pedals, and they worked one, two, three, from the right to the left, and this seemed quite natural, as I find my left ankle bends to the left, much easier than to the right, also if I may use the phrase, the Emmons style would make my left knee roll onto my left lever going right to be pushed over, giving me a slight detune. Thus needing to have the levers much further apart, making me jump about as if I was needing to go to the john.
At a seminar with Emmons he made a remark about some steel guitarists raising the E,s on one knee, and lowering the E,s on the other knee, thus wasting a knee when you could have the E,s raised and lowered on the same knee, sound advice as I had my E,s on separate knees.
The second observation I would like to make is when using the John Hughey style with both pedals A-B down sliding to a 7th requires moving the bar to the left, rocking to the left onto the B pedal, and going to the left on the E,s to E flat, which is on the left knee.
Where as, using pedals with the Emmons set-up, requires moving the bar to the left, rocking to the right onto the B pedal, and pushing the knee lever to the right also.
I find it a whole lot easier with everything going the same way, but each to his own, I suppose it’s the way you are introduced to the instrument.
This little exercise is based on playing a chord, I.e. pedals down on the 5th fret, D, then sliding down to the C position to make a 7th chord.
Amazing instrument the Steel, unlike most instruments, it can be designed to fit your requirements in many ways.
I remember one time on an American Air Base, a Steel player tried to play my steel, and he was completely lost on the set up, play a trumpet, sax, piano, you can play them all, not so with a Steel Guitar, but it’s fun trying.